Honda Ridgeline.....why doesn't this thing sell better? [Archive] (2024)

Analogeezer

1st February 2021, 18:19

So I came across an ad in a car magazine for the Ridgeline, got curious and built one online, a nice mid-level one with AWD and leather interior didn't even run $40,000.

Looked up the sales stats and in 2020 they barely moved 32,000 of the things.

Hell some months Honda sold more CR-V's in a month than that.

Hey I get that:

1. Truck buyers tend to be more conservative and "buy 'Merican"

2. Some truck buyers actually need a body on frame pickup to do actual pickupy things

3. Lots of pickup buyers are a big hung up on the macho thing, the Ridgeline is certainly not that

But my neighborhood is festooned with four door F-150's and Silverados I rarely see hauling anything, much less towing stuff, they just get used as cars.

Seems like a Ridgeline excels at this kind of role, and the people who do buy them really love them. While I maybe wouldn't want to tow a large RV with one, they are rated to tow a fair amount (6,000 pounds in AWD I think) and for many towing jobs they would do just fine.

I'd put it down to anti-Japanese truck itis but the Tundra handily outsells it.

Hell they SOLD MORE SUPRAS last year than Ridgelines.

Just not butch enough for the mall crawler crowd? :dunno:

Analogeezer

Stevester

1st February 2021, 18:34

I'm guessing it is your point #2. Because it is for me. Pickup trucks (and cars) should have a frame. Why? I dunno. I just think they do... for no particular reason I can think or speak of. I like El Caminos but not the early unibody Rancheros (the later full-frame ones are okay, tho.). I had/have no interest in the VW or Dodge (the FWD, K-car based ones) pickups or Subaru Baja. OTOH, I do like the first gen Subaru BRAT. Maybe those welded in jump seats made it okay?

But then again, it's most likely, your last point about not being butch enough. Everybody wants to project a macho self-image...

chickdr

1st February 2021, 18:34

RADOne

1st February 2021, 18:38

Analogeezer

1st February 2021, 18:40

I think the unibody really kills it with the truck buying public. I just sold my Tacoma and bought a '20 Frontier. Didn't even consider the Ridgeline. They have some neat features for sure but my experience with a 2016 RDX really soured me to Honda products. The fact I got my well equipped truck for 26,500 (32,250 MSRP) didn't hurt either. You couldn't touch a comparable Ridgeline for under 30k.

As archaic as the current Frontier is (I think the 2021 has the new engine, maybe the 2020 does too?) it still outsold the Ridgeline.

What issues did you have with your RDX? I could see that being a buzzkill for the Ridgeline then for sure.

The thing about the unibody vs. the body on frame though, I bet half the buyers of trucks these days don't even know the difference.

Analogeezer

p.s. I can see the Ridgeline never selling in domestic truck quantities (like 500,000 a year) but it is puzzling they barely move more of them than VW did Sportwagens back when I bought mine and the Sportwagen was a super niche product

Analogeezer

1st February 2021, 18:42

Isn't a Ridgeline a mid size truck. Smaller than an F150. About Dodge Dakota size. That and no frame will hurt sales.

Might be slightly smaller overall but I think the bed is comparable to current four door pickups.

Realistically do the people in the suburbs buying four door pickups as cars even realize the difference between unibody and body on frame?

Hell most people cannot tell you how much HP their car has, do they really pay attention to frames vs. unibody?

Analogeezer

SRoss

1st February 2021, 18:52

It's too compromised. Not good as a utility pickup truck. Not good as a car/SUV either.

Ok there is a niche for the Ridgeline I guess, but the Big 3 make so many dozens of versions of their pickups that it makes them fit into many many niches, many many price points, configurations, power, offroad,cargo,towing, base-vs-luxury, niches. Most of the truck comparison reviews don't even include a Ridgeline in them, afaik.

J3cubrc

1st February 2021, 18:56

baritone mike

1st February 2021, 18:56

firstgenerationmiata

1st February 2021, 18:57

BCKMRKR

1st February 2021, 18:57

As a satisfied '17 owner, the better question is "Why does everyone hate it so much?". Ok, fine, I get it doesn't fit the macho truck image some people want/need or tow 8,000 lbs (it's 5,000 for my AWD). Then there's the "I could get a ______ for $10K less people" - ok, great, save your $. But drive one blindfolded ("Do Not Attempt - Professional Driver on a Closed Course") and you couldn't tell it from an Accord or similar sedan.

In contrast, the car I replaced for it ('08 Honda Element AWD) is nearly universally loved - I mean, who hates an Element (other than Honda, which killed it when sales were dropping to close to 10,000/yr with the justification that owners could buy a mechanically similar CR-V)?

baritone mike

1st February 2021, 18:58

I actually didn't know they still made Ridgelines, thought they stopped years ago..

They should have, the first generation was ugly. The current generation makes the first generation look good.

Dry Martini

1st February 2021, 19:02

Do you sit around and think of stuff to post on M.net?

I am sure Honda is asking the same question, well that and why the Crosstour does not sell well. Now there is interesting question, what does Honda sell more of, Ridgeline or Crosstour? Never mind. Who cares, beside you?

Let’s face it. Ot sucks as a truck, and it’s overpriced.

MX-5speed

1st February 2021, 19:34

MiataQuest

1st February 2021, 20:18

sg44

1st February 2021, 20:20

Car and Driver’s answer to “Why doesn’t this thing sell better” is:
“... it won't take long for someone to bring up how the Ridgeline is something of a wimp in the greater truck world. The uncommon vitriol aimed at the second-generation Honda pickup has everything to do with its being the only player in the mid-size class with a carlike unibody instead of a conventional body-on-frame construction.”
And C&D’s opinion is:
... testing director Dave VanderWerp put it: "What a great truck (and, yes, it's a truck, to all the haters out there). It's seriously practical without being unparkably huge.”

Over 40,000 Miles, the 2019 Honda Ridgeline Proves It's a Real Truck, By Alexander Stoklosa, June 4, 2019
Seriously, drop the nonsense that the Ridgeline is a weenie pickup.
https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/a25606089/2019-honda-ridgeline-reliability-maintenance-update-20k/

Analogeezer

1st February 2021, 21:31

Do you sit around and think of stuff to post on M.net?

I am sure Honda is asking the same question, well that and why the Crosstour does not sell well. Now there is interesting question, what does Honda sell more of, Ridgeline or Crosstour? Never mind. Who cares, beside you?

Let’s face it. Ot sucks as a truck, and it’s overpriced.

Do you search out all my threads just to threadcrap? Sure seems like it :rolleyes:

It's Cartalk dingus, people post threads about cars/trucks and it gets discussed.
That's the way car forums work.

Do I have to brainsplain everything to you? It gets tiresome, oh yeah right ya basic :rofl:

Analogeezer

Analogeezer

1st February 2021, 21:37

As a satisfied '17 owner, the better question is "Why does everyone hate it so much?". Ok, fine, I get it doesn't fit the macho truck image some people want/need or tow 8,000 lbs (it's 5,000 for my AWD). Then there's the "I could get a ______ for $10K less people" - ok, great, save your $. But drive one blindfolded ("Do Not Attempt - Professional Driver on a Closed Course") and you couldn't tell it from an Accord or similar sedan.

In contrast, the car I replaced for it ('08 Honda Element AWD) is nearly universally loved - I mean, who hates an Element (other than Honda, which killed it when sales were dropping to close to 10,000/yr with the justification that owners could buy a mechanically similar CR-V)?

I hated the Element I drove it was not super high mileage (80,000 maybe) but it drove like the Jeep Patriot I once had to drive. Like the Jeep it had wooden brakes, all the steering feel of a 1960's land barge and felt slow, I know they are slow but it felt just really lethargic. It was an auto but mashing the gas resulted in some thrashing and moaning but that was about it, not much forward progress.

They WERE very practical, the perfect bicycle hauler (what the guy used his for) but not much to recommend about them.

Seems to me, even a lot of the comments in this thread give it crap for not being a "real truck" but as I mention so many people with trucks don't use or need a real truck.

Kind of like those people who buy the Rubicon versions of Wrangler and never even take them on a dirt road.

Analogeezer

BetweenMiatas

1st February 2021, 21:40

Do you sit around and think of stuff to post on M.net?

What's wrong with that? :dunno:

Barefoot

1st February 2021, 21:41

Hell they SOLD MORE SUPRAS last year than Ridgelines.

Toyota sold a little under 6,000 Supras in 2020

Plus 2

1st February 2021, 21:50

BetweenMiatas

1st February 2021, 21:50

Seems to me, even a lot of the comments in this thread give it crap for not being a "real truck" but as I mention so many people with trucks don't use or need a real truck.

Kind of like those people who buy the Rubicon versions of Wrangler and never even take them on a dirt road.

Analogeezer

Well, let's say that's true, that the people driving body-on-frame don't need all of their capability, and a Ridgeline would fill their use case perfectly. But the Ridgeline looks kinda blah, whereas you can get some pretty cool-looking body-on-frame trucks. So they buy real trucks. If Honda wants to sell more trucks, maybe they should make a cool-looking real truck, then.

And honestly, when you're towing something, 6000 pounds isn't much... the trailer probably weighs around 2000 pounds all by itself, unless you're buying one of those expensive lightweight ones.

Thirdly, it's nice to have more than enough. Traditional trucks offer more than enough power, more than enough towing, and more than enough space in the interior.

If I were a truck buyer, I would not give a Ridgeline a passing thought. (My Raptor would be blue.)

Mariner90

1st February 2021, 22:05

Capn Crass

1st February 2021, 22:07

...threadcrap...

This is my new favorite word.

TheBigFish

1st February 2021, 22:08

Do you sit around and think of stuff to post on M.net?

I am sure Honda is asking the same question, well that and why the Crosstour does not sell well. Now there is interesting question, what does Honda sell more of, Ridgeline or Crosstour? Never mind. Who cares, beside you?

Let’s face it. Ot sucks as a truck, and it’s overpriced.

Jesus dude...

TheBigFish

1st February 2021, 22:09

What's wrong with that? :dunno:

Nuttin' he's just bein' a di...

2ndOne

1st February 2021, 22:37

...
1. Truck buyers tend to be more conservative and "buy 'Merican"

2. Some truck buyers actually need a body on frame pickup to do actual pickupy things

3. Lots of pickup buyers are a big hung up on the macho thing, the Ridgeline is certainly not that

But my neighborhood is festooned with four door F-150's and Silverados I rarely see hauling anything, much less towing stuff, they just get used as cars.

Seems like a Ridgeline excels at this kind of role, and the people who do buy them really love them. ...

I think #2 and #3 are confounded with each other and are primarily the reason that has kept the Ridgeline to small quantities.

Related, it doesn't help that the updated Ridgeline just doesn't look as brawny as the F150, Silverado, or Ram trucks. And the first gen Ridgeline was unsightly.

Those I've talked with who've had a Ridgeline have loved theirs. And I think those buying one know it isn't a brawny pickup--they're ok with that, having no intention to use it to tow or carry heavy load. Conversely, many of those buying the F150, Ram, or Silverado are buying the pickup to use as a car, with the capability to carry or tow heavy loads if they ever want to (yet rarely or never do).

Lance Schall

1st February 2021, 22:38

Franco

1st February 2021, 22:55

SRoss

1st February 2021, 23:02

I actually prefer the styling of the Ridgeline over any other pickup on the market now. It's a segment which is universally hideous, with Honda being the least offensive to my eyes.

I drive with a 2wd pickup (Tundra RWD, 8' bed) daily I think I would prefer it to be FWD because I am spinning my rears every day all winter on the wet roads here, and can't risk any kind of muddy/slightly-doffroad driving. I bet FWD would be better for that.

I am not keen on a pickup have a bed shorter than 8 feet though, and I think a truck is best with a V8 (or electric). I could live with the 1500lb capacity of the bed line in the Ridgeline, but 8 foot bed is way way better. way way way better imho

BCKMRKR

1st February 2021, 23:07

I hated the Element I drove it was not super high mileage (80,000 maybe) but it drove like the Jeep Patriot I once had to drive. Like the Jeep it had wooden brakes, all the steering feel of a 1960's land barge and felt slow, I know they are slow but it felt just really lethargic. It was an auto but mashing the gas resulted in some thrashing and moaning but that was about it, not much forward progress.

They WERE very practical, the perfect bicycle hauler (what the guy used his for) but not much to recommend about them.

Seems to me, even a lot of the comments in this thread give it crap for not being a "real truck" but as I mention so many people with trucks don't use or need a real truck.

Kind of like those people who buy the Rubicon versions of Wrangler and never even take them on a dirt road.

Analogeezer

That's part of my point - it was slow and handling was poor, but it excelled at being practical for my uses (bike hauling, large square dog crates that don't fit in almost any other SUV, especially with tapered rear windows). I only got mine up to ~58K before selling way above KBB (paid $23K OTD, got $15K cash 9 years later) to a buyer that had ~230K on his (he was a photographer hauling lots of Pelican cases).

EndlessPurple

1st February 2021, 23:17

This thread makes me want a ridgeline if I were to ever get a truck.

Seems like the ego stroking is what most trucks seem to be based on (with some exceptions in drivers that actually use the truck aspect).

Mariner90

1st February 2021, 23:18

That One Guy 2

1st February 2021, 23:55

Without a doubt, the best truck for people that don't need a heavy duty work truck. Or perhaps "the best truck for people that don't actually need a truck". Steered my buddy towards buying one new last year. He absolutely loves it. Holds two dirtbikes, his gear bag fits in the "trunk" below the bed, seats 5 in supreme comfort.

The independent rear suspension, unibody construction, and lack of a 2-speed transfer case are complete positives to the target market for these trucks. Why get beaten up by a truck you're never going to drive on anything rougher than a forest road?

Returns great fuel economy and they've historically been very reliable. Up through 2019 they had the fairly proven 6-speed automatic. Hopefully the new 9-speed isn't a reliability nightmare. The Honda J-series V6 is the best n/a V6 around.

If my uses only needing a crossover-esque truck, I'd totally buy one. Unlike most SUV buyers though, I actually need the serious 4x4, low range capability.

T Squared

2nd February 2021, 00:17

jamesqf

2nd February 2021, 00:28

I'm guessing it is your point #2. Because it is for me. Pickup trucks (and cars) should have a frame. Why? I dunno. I just think they do... for no particular reason I can think or speak of...

I dunno about the frame - are most potential buyers really that sophisticated? But I do think it's mostly point #2: the thing just does not look like a truck, it looks like a big sedan that's missing the trunk lid. I notice the somewhat similar Chevy Avalanche didn't sell all that well, either.

jimbonnie

2nd February 2021, 01:14

firstgenerationmiata

2nd February 2021, 06:42

the thing just does not look like a truck, it looks like a big sedan that's missing the trunk lid. I notice the somewhat similar Chevy Avalanche didn't sell all that well, either.

^So true. I wouldn't mind it not looking like a truck but what it does look like isn't good. Googling pics of the newer style I think it does look better than the original design, but still too much like a sedan missing something. And the Chevy Avalanche, man that was hideous..

JT58

2nd February 2021, 07:30

Dry Martini

2nd February 2021, 07:55

Do you search out all my threads just to threadcrap? Sure seems like it :rolleyes:

No search involved. I saw Ridgeline and it caught my attention. I thought, this out to be interesting.

It's Cartalk dingus, people post threads about cars/trucks and it gets discussed.
That's the way car forums work.

No sh•t. I know how forums work and I realize this is cartalk. But to discuss why a vehicle does not sell in greater numbers? That is weak sauce.

To recap:

Ridgeline is ugly
Mediocre tow capacity
Overpriced for what you get

And most important and what everyone on this forum seems to forget:

People buy what they want. “Need” does not always factor into their decision.

Dry Martini

2nd February 2021, 08:03

Nuttin' he's just bein' a di...

I am in good company. There are plenty of like minded people that in this forum, when it comes to not understanding how/why people spend their money. [emoji19]

If a guy/girl wants a full size Ford/Chevy over a Ridgeline, that is fine by me. There is no name calling on my part.

Jesse1999

2nd February 2021, 08:04

I'd buy a Cybertruck just to see their heads explode.

:rofl: Thanks, I nearly spit my morning coffee across the room.

sloopercat

2nd February 2021, 08:06

I bought a new gen Ridgeline. It was around $30K with leather and AWD. Size is one reason I bought it, it would fit in the garage without taking up all the room. It drives more like a luxury sedan, smooth and quiet. The bed trunk is pure genius. The drivetrain is very good, more so when I killed the cylinder deactivation. It handles decent, it has a torque vectoring rear differential, SH-AWD. The thing tows like a dream, within the weight limits. They have some electronics that assist to help make towing very stable. I towed my NC on a 2400# Uhaul trailer and it was very stable going up and down the passes and curves between Asheville and Charlotte.

My interest in a full size truck was zero. What most folks probably end up buying instead of a Ridgeline is an SUV. Because we are Troglodytes or Lemmings and possibly both.

Daniel Dudley

2nd February 2021, 08:25

They are very good to drive. If I didn't need the truckiness of an actual work truck, I would certainly consider one.

I don't think it is very polite to single out truck owners as all being in a certain category though. It fails to impress.
It sounds like as many people choose to buy vehicles to feel good about themselves. Looking down on others is a different kind of feeling good about yourself. Nobody comes here to get that.

rjs2005

2nd February 2021, 08:29

2ndOne

2nd February 2021, 08:32

^^^last few posts. Similar to whet I've heard other Ridgeline owners say. One would suit me quite well--the quietness, smoothness, ride quality, casual utitility, and feature set I think are a *really* good combo. I looked at getting one as my primary driver in 2006, but struggled instead went with Acura's new 2007 RDX (it was fantastic, other than its cargo volume is constraining). A key aspect for my lower back was the upright seating position, with the seat pan being placed well above the floor, that helping for long drives. (Yeah, the Miata is opposite of that, so it is only for short drives, commutes.)

When I replaced that 2007 RDX in 2018 (with a low-mile, early-lease-return 2017 RDX), I honestly didn't even *think* about Ridgeline. Today, I don't know why I overlooked it, and it reinforces the quandary brought up in the OP.

For *me*, the Ridgeline probably would have been a better suited vehicle to another RDX as an around town commuter or long-distance travler, with great comfort and features (love the SH-AWD on CO curvy snowy roads!), and ability to handle light-duty cargo on occasion.
:dunno:

express_wagon

2nd February 2021, 09:03

I have a 2008 Ridgeline that I bought used as mostly a dump vehicle. It is a brilliant truck, drives well, rides well, and what it appears to be well built. Incredibly well thought out vehicle in and out. I put 20k miles on it now after buying it with 232k miles, thing has been solid other than some maintenance items like a battery and rear brakes. Downside is crap mileage for being a V6. Would 100% buy again.

I actually don't like the 2ng gens other than their torque vectoring AWD system. The original AWD isn't bad by any means. It'll do the job just fine.

TheBigFish

2nd February 2021, 09:31

Americans are troglodytes.

Bigots are worse

TheBigFish

2nd February 2021, 09:32

I am in good company. There are plenty of like minded people that in this forum, when it comes to not understanding how/why people spend their money. [emoji19]

If a guy/girl wants a full size Ford/Chevy over a Ridgeline, that is fine by me. There is no name calling on my part.

That ain't it. Maybe Analog likes to interact with the forum. Why bitch about him starting threads? Somebody has to.

firstgenerationmiata

2nd February 2021, 09:36

But to discuss why a vehicle does not sell in greater numbers? That is weak sauce.

I simply can't agree with this statement because one look at forum topics on here will show there are many that would qualify as 'weak sauce'. For every interesting learning thread like 'how I installed my frame rails, etc' there are numerous 'do you think driving a Miata makes you look girly?' type threads. I just don't click into the ones that obviously won't interest me. And TBH I learned from this thread that: 1)Ridgelines are still being made 2)They're unibody vehicles, and 3)There are 2 generations of them. All stuff I didn't know before reading here and worth tucking away for future reference (maybe). ;)

TheBigFish

2nd February 2021, 09:39

memebag

2nd February 2021, 09:51

Everybody wants to project a macho self-image...

Not me.

The only pickup truck I've ever been interested in was that tiny Toyota truck they sold here back in the mid 80s. They were cheap, small and useful.

But I'm not in the market for a pickup, and neither is my wife.

Dry Martini

2nd February 2021, 10:08

That ain't it. Maybe Analog likes to interact with the forum. Why bitch about him starting threads? Somebody has to.

This forum has no trouble with content. But a thread about a sales failure? That is like asking, why does a bird fly? Because it can. Why is the Ridgeline a sales disappointment? Because people want a real truck, whether they need it, or not!

And of course any time trucks are mentioned, the bitching and moaning is soon to follow.

Now a question about the actual vehicle itself, like the lubing lug nuts/bolts, that is interesting.

joe_323

2nd February 2021, 10:10

I just passed a Ridgeline this morning. It seems like sort of a truck, sort of an Accord. I can see why the initial appearance turns people off. Just form looking at it I would assume it get one mile offroad and instantly self-destruct.
OTOH a buddy who is very much a car guy just bought one and loves it. "Drives like an AWD Accord and hauls crap home from Home Depot" :thumbs:

It wouldn't do much for me,when the dogs are all muddy they go in the back of the Volvo on the rubber mat behind the dog net. A truck - not so much. If I ever do get a 4WD something it has to be able to drive on the beach in the soft sand, which AFAIK the Ridgeline can't do.

Dry Martini

2nd February 2021, 10:13

I wouldn't mind a smaller utility vehicle with an open bed. I've owned a nice full size GMC. They are great for long distance travel and hauling relatively heavy loads but I found I didn't use it enough as a truck to justify having it. Something like a Ridgeline would be nice.

And the rest of the people that were called names, did not worry about buying a full size truck, regardless of actual need. [emoji106]

That One Guy 2

2nd February 2021, 10:26

express_wagon

2nd February 2021, 10:36

I just passed a Ridgeline this morning. It seems like sort of a truck, sort of an Accord. I can see why the initial appearance turns people off. Just form looking at it I would assume it get one mile offroad and instantly self-destruct.
OTOH a buddy who is very much a car guy just bought one and loves it. "Drives like an AWD Accord and hauls crap home from Home Depot" :thumbs:

It wouldn't do much for me,when the dogs are all muddy they go in the back of the Volvo on the rubber mat behind the dog net. A truck - not so much. If I ever do get a 4WD something it has to be able to drive on the beach in the soft sand, which AFAIK the Ridgeline can't do.

They are no better or worse than the competitors. Ruggedness is more marketing than you think.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CWYqEinNGUM

Dry Martini

2nd February 2021, 10:39

^ Dude, what is your problem with the OP? Are you offended by this thread topic on a personal level? Car Talk is for talking about whatever silly car thing we want, so here we are. Discussing why the Ridgeline is or isn't a sales success is perfectly legitimate. You've made your opinions on this subject known several times.

Well I am offended when a certain group of people are called names, based on their purchasing decisions.

But if you are okay with such low brow banter, this sort of topic is for you! [emoji106]

Gumpus

2nd February 2021, 10:44

The Ridgeline seems like a fine vehicle but maybe it just doesn't fit the needs of that many people. I think that for most people the Passport or Pilot is more versatile and for those that have serious work to do a traditional pick-up (even midsize) has more capability.

I think it's funny the way so many folks try so hard to stereotype pick-up truck drivers. On one of the 4-Runner forums they like to mention how sports cars are bought by insecure males. :rofl:

joe_323

2nd February 2021, 10:52

They are no better or worse than the competitors. Ruggedness is more marketing than you think.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CWYqEinNGUM

I have no idea how tough they ACTUALLY are, not even the slightest clue. I was speaking of first impressions driving by one and those impressions matter more than you might think.
Subaru couldn't give away a Legacy wagon once they had the Outback version which is obviously vastly superior at taking on any kind of Mad Max adventure because someone glued some plastic panels onto it :rolleyes:
I just read the C&D review of the latest one and it sounds really nice for on-road use:
https://www.caranddriver.com/honda/ridgeline
The only dings against it relative to other trucks is no offroad capability* and lower towing capacity. Those things really matter around here, most trucks at some point are hauling a boat up a slippery ramp,towing a camper, or at least the owners think they will do that some day even if they don't have a boat or a camper.

* obviously it can drive on some offroad terrain, I managed to get an MR2 up the beach from the Outer Banks to the Virginia border and back again as well as a RWD Volvo wagon. It seems to have the same AWD setup more or less as the Acura SUVs have and the CrossTour had. That will come to an instant stop once away from the water into the soft sand. If you need 4-Low with locking differentials this truck is not for you.

Lance Schall

2nd February 2021, 11:36

They are no better or worse than the competitors. Ruggedness is more marketing than you think.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CWYqEinNGUMThanks for posting this. Very interesting. As the resident maniac who thinks most light trucks should be unibody and independent suspension at both ends, it was interesting to see the stick axles blow up their shocks. Before the broken shocks, I watched them introduce their fleet and I swear I saw the rear axles bouncing and thought...ouch. I'm the rear independent suspension guy, so I notice these things.

twowheeled

2nd February 2021, 11:52

I had a 1st gen which I loved aside from the fuel economy wasn't so good for a V6 transverse setup, and it didn't have enough noise proofing from the factory so long trips on the highway were sort of uncomfortable with wind and tire noise. What a lot of people don't know is the ridgeline actually does have a less robust semi ladder frame welded to a unibody.
http://i.imgur.com/aEWt4Bo.jpg

it's the perfect city truck if you don't have to tow a camper or boat. It has to be cross shopped with the likes of the tacomas and canyons. For comfort there's no comparison, the ridgeline has that nice roomy minivan seating position with tons of space. You can seat 4 adults. All the other midsize trucks gave that up for ground clearance so you have a high floor.

Chris Stack

2nd February 2021, 11:52

For me, I’ve considered a Ridgeline numerous times. The problem I have with it is the same as the problems I have with most other Honda’s these days: they seem designed to give you exactly what you need, nothing more. It’s like they got a whole bunch of nerds together, got an idea of exactly what your base needs are, and didn’t give you anything more than that. Which is a very practical philosophy, but just rubs me the wrong way st this point. Why not give me a little more to make it fun? Does anyone need a Raptor or TRX or even a TRD Pro Taco? Or a Wrangler Rubicon? Very very few people. But that doesn’t mean they’re not fun to own.

Plus I’d be lying if I said guys making fun of my truck wouldn’t bother me. Of the guys I hunt with, there’s me with the Wrangler, and then a guy with a Tundra, a guy who just replaced his Titan with an F-150, and the a guy with a Ridgeline. Guess who we pick on? Guess who got stuck on the access “road” to the hunting shack last year and had to be pulled out?

Lance Schall

2nd February 2021, 12:17

joe_323

2nd February 2021, 12:17

For me, I’ve considered a Ridgeline numerous times. The problem I have with it is the same as the problems I have with most other Honda’s these days: they seem designed to give you exactly what you need, nothing more. It’s like they got a whole bunch of nerds together, got an idea of exactly what your base needs are, and didn’t give you anything more than that. Which is a very practical philosophy, but just rubs me the wrong way st this point. Why not give me a little more to make it fun? Does anyone need a Raptor or TRX or even a TRD Pro Taco? Or a Wrangler Rubicon? Very very few people. But that doesn’t mean they’re not fun to own.

Plus I’d be lying if I said guys making fun of my truck wouldn’t bother me. Of the guys I hunt with, there’s me with the Wrangler, and then a guy with a Tundra, a guy who just replaced his Titan with an F-150, and the a guy with a Ridgeline. Guess who we pick on? Guess who got stuck on the access “road” to the hunting shack last year and had to be pulled out?

I am sure he never lived that down, just like the photo of my friend's dead Wrangler being pulled through deep water by my diesel Mercedes was cause for much teasing :rofl:
* Jeeps of that year were easily killed by injesting water

Edit - this is the same issue you have with selling an AWD Sienna. It is propably a much much better choice for most things people really do with SUVs, as opposed to what they imagine they will do, but who the hell wants to be seen in a minivan even if it free and can climb Mt. Everest :rolleyes:

Lance Schall

2nd February 2021, 12:22

Chris Stack

2nd February 2021, 12:27

The people next door use a landscaping service to plow their driveway. Somehow the landscapers got a V10 2500 Ram (Twister era) stuck against the side of their house, and it was stuck in the driveway overnight. They used a bobcat to dig it out. This in a 75’ single car wide suburban driveway with about 10” of snow.

https://forum.miata.net/vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=352824&stc=1&d=1612283250

That One Guy 2

2nd February 2021, 12:33

* obviously it can drive on some offroad terrain, I managed to get an MR2 up the beach from the Outer Banks to the Virginia border and back again as well as a RWD Volvo wagon. It seems to have the same AWD setup more or less as the Acura SUVs have and the CrossTour had. That will come to an instant stop once away from the water into the soft sand. If you need 4-Low with locking differentials this truck is not for you.

That being said, how many trucks offer a front locker? Or even a rear locker? My 1999 4Runner has a selectable locking rear differential, and many offroad oriented Toyotas continue to offer them. Wranglers and Gladiators can get F&R lockers if you're willing to spend crazy money. These 1/2 ton entry-level trucks, how many of them offer a rear locker? I don't stay up to date on domestic full-size trucks, so I personally don't know.

Lance Schall

2nd February 2021, 12:34

Chris Stack

2nd February 2021, 12:43

Snow changes everything, makes a "1" trail into a "5". In this case I could see not wanting the whale on it if there is a risk of sliding into the house.

There was no “risk” of hitting the house, he hit the house.

express_wagon

2nd February 2021, 12:45

That being said, how many trucks offer a front locker? Or even a rear locker? My 1999 4Runner has a selectable locking rear differential, and many offroad oriented Toyotas continue to offer them. Wranglers and Gladiators can get F&R lockers if you're willing to spend crazy money. These 1/2 ton entry-level trucks, how many of them offer a rear locker? I don't stay up to date on domestic full-size trucks, so I personally don't know.

Rear lockers (some automated, some selectable) are not that uncommon, Frontiers, Colorados, Silverados, F150s all can be opted with one (select trims). You can get a front locking diff in a Colorado ZR2.

Locking diffs in most vehicles are extreme. I love the idea of them. Had them in my old 1996 Land Cruiser, have a rear in my current 2004 Tacoma as well...but let's face it, it rarely gets used. Lock it in 4H and it'll get you out of a lot of situations. The only time I even "use" them is just to exercise them.

Lance Schall

2nd February 2021, 12:52

Chris Stack

2nd February 2021, 12:52

jamesqf

2nd February 2021, 13:51

[QUOTE=memebag;10102908The only pickup truck I've ever been interested in was that tiny Toyota truck they sold here back in the mid 80s. They were cheap, small and useful..[/QUOTE]

Tiny? I beg to differ. Just the right size to be useful. And they last pretty well forever - still using mine ('88) to haul hay & firewood, and get to skiing when the snow's too deep on the roads to take the Miata.

joe_323

2nd February 2021, 14:27

I love the idea of lockers but these days a good electronic stability control that brakes spinning wheels works pretty well. I have the “e-ABD” in my Wrangler with open diffs and it is shockingly capable.

Noooooooo- hate those things. My Mazda 3 managed to launch and retrieve my Whaler off a soft-ish sand beach, but just barely and the "fake locked diff" made by using the brakes was REALLY hard on the car and just barely worked anyway. Used as intended for traction/stability on the street it is fine, but I imagine one good outing in sand would have you buying new brakes.

joe_323

2nd February 2021, 14:30

That being said, how many trucks offer a front locker? Or even a rear locker? My 1999 4Runner has a selectable locking rear differential, and many offroad oriented Toyotas continue to offer them. Wranglers and Gladiators can get F&R lockers if you're willing to spend crazy money. These 1/2 ton entry-level trucks, how many of them offer a rear locker? I don't stay up to date on domestic full-size trucks, so I personally don't know.

I haven't drive a ton of trucks, but the Ram I borrow sometimes locks at least one differential in one of the two 4WD modes, I accidentally set it that way hauling my boat out and then couldn't turn in the parking lot :rolleyes:
The Silverado we rented at Hatteras for beach driving likewise locked a diff, I am not sure which one of the three it was, but we were strongly reminded not to drive it that way on the road.
All open diffs all the time = 1 wheel drive more or less.

rsa

2nd February 2021, 14:40

Lance Schall

2nd February 2021, 15:06

Brian Goodwin

2nd February 2021, 15:53

Our 2020 Ridgeline. Shop truck, hauls cars to events, hauls everything we need from Home Depot, gets a lot better mileage than my V8 truck and rides/handles better too.

Thing that I didn't understand until I had it....a TRUNK in a truck. I use that almost daily, functions as the ice chest too for events.
http://blogmedia.dealerfire.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/703/2017/01/2017-honda-ridgeline-in-bed-trunk-B1_o.jpg

https://www.mazdatalkforum.com/download/file.php?id=7708&t=1

Testing max bed load, that's a pallet of ceramic tile.
https://www.mazdatalkforum.com/download/file.php?id=7721&t=1

The weight of this and my old V8 Dakota are nearly the same, dims are also very close as you see here with them parked side by side.
https://www.mazdatalkforum.com/download/file.php?id=7458&t=1

Roomy on the inside like nothing else can be in this size class thanks to the unibody construction. My only real mechanical complaint has been brakes for towing not sufficient (Car and Driver and most of the magazines have had the same knock on it), well into making our own front brake upgrade.

ThatsABigOne

2nd February 2021, 16:55

Franco

2nd February 2021, 16:57

baritone mike

2nd February 2021, 17:11

But it does’t have a proper frame, you know, like a 19th century horse carriage. Therefore it’s no good.

Wouldn't this be considered unibody?
https://i.pinimg.com/originals/8a/91/07/8a91071ae3f389bc631ff609e550202b.jpg

I always find it funny when people compare stick axles or frames to horse carriages. Just because it is old technology doesn't mean it doesn't still work.

Kain

2nd February 2021, 17:12

Dry Martini

2nd February 2021, 17:38

If I was in the market for a truck (which I'm not), the Ridgeline would be at the top of the list for all of the reasons Goodwin stated. Drives like a car when you want, gives the utility of a truck when you need. I wonder how many people who daily a full-size pickup if they were honest with themselves and not care about brand loyalty or what Cleetus at work will think would be just fine with a Ridgeline.

Well that would depend on if they like the looks of the Ridgeline, or if they prefer a V8.

What if they daily a PU, but tow a boat on the weekends? I live near a large lake and plenty of people own boats and use them, regularly.

TheBigFish

2nd February 2021, 17:40

Wouldn't this be considered unibody?
https://i.pinimg.com/originals/8a/91/07/8a91071ae3f389bc631ff609e550202b.jpg

I always find it funny when people compare stick axles or frames to horse carriages. Just because it is old technology doesn't mean it doesn't still work.

Remember we are all troglodytes...

Kain

2nd February 2021, 17:43

Well that would depend on if they like the looks of the Ridgeline, or if they prefer a V8.

What if they daily a PU, but tow a boat on the weekends? I live near a large lake and plenty of people own boats and use them, regularly.

Never said there wasn't a use for more capable rigs. But I've lived in rural areas long enough to see enough uncoated beds with nary a scratch to know many aren't seeing their intended use.

That said, if I only bought with my head and not my heart, I wouldn't have a two-seat roadster, either.

Dry Martini

2nd February 2021, 17:48

Never said there wasn't a use for more capable rigs. But I've lived in rural areas long enough to see enough uncoated beds with nary a scratch to know many aren't seeing their intended use.

That said, if I only bought with my head and not my heart, I wouldn't have a two-seat roadster, either.

Well then, if you admit to buying with your heart, why do you question others who do the same?

Kain

2nd February 2021, 17:55

Well then, if you admit to buying with your heart, why do you question others who do the same?

I think the very fact that I called myself out on my own bullsh*t in my last post was my retraction.

baritone mike

2nd February 2021, 17:58

Remember we are all troglodytes...

I own 3 cars, the newest one is 24 years old, they all have a manual transmission and zero electronic driving aids and one of them has 2 solid axles and leaf springs on all 4 corners. Calling me a troglodyte wouldn't be all that unfair.:dunno:

Dry Martini

2nd February 2021, 18:28

I think the very fact that I called myself out on my own bullsh*t in my last post was my retraction.

Fair enough.

Orangello

2nd February 2021, 18:32

Thing that I didn't understand until I had it....a TRUNK in a truck. I use that almost daily, functions as the ice chest too for events.
http://blogmedia.dealerfire.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/703/2017/01/2017-honda-ridgeline-in-bed-trunk-B1_o.jpg

:eek: WHOA! It has a trunk in the bed of the truck. So, you could put something in the trunk, then fill the bed with pinestraw and just look like a landscaper...

hmmmm.

joe_323

2nd February 2021, 18:42

If I was in the market for a truck (which I'm not), the Ridgeline would be at the top of the list for all of the reasons Goodwin stated. Drives like a car when you want, gives the utility of a truck when you need. I wonder how many people who daily a full-size pickup if they were honest with themselves and not care about brand loyalty or what Cleetus at work will think would be just fine with a Ridgeline.

Around here if the truck is not huge and leaving a trail of smoke that would do the Titanic proud then you are a girlie man at best and probably came from the western shore to boot, you for dang sure weren't born on the island!

BassfreakBRG

2nd February 2021, 19:03

I circled around the notion of getting a Ridgeline a few times as well.

All the virtues noted are there. For a truck it is great on gas, comfortable, smooth, capable and versatile.

I just never got past step 1. Will it fit my needs yes.
Step 2. Do I want to put it into consideration (against the competition Tacoma and GM Twins and Ranger). No.

Even though it seemed better at everything than the other options. I just didn't WANT it. Looks and price seemed to overshadow its perceived value against the competitors.

I didn't wind up buying a truck. I wanted something to tow my little boat, easily swallow up my kayak, tow our travel trailer and for dump/dirt/mulch runs.

Well, I just use my FIL or BIL's trucks for dump/dirt runs and it turns out our Ascent does all of the rest of the outdoorsy stuff just fine, so I scrapped the truck notion and went in a totally other direction.

At the time, the Ridgeline found itself at the bottom of my list while shopping around for a truck.

To answer the OP's question. There was just no THERE there.

Gumpus

2nd February 2021, 19:03

http://assets.trucktrend.com/f/141941026.jpg

That looks nice. Do you know if the Passport has a similar structure?

MX5Jeff

2nd February 2021, 19:40

I think it's a fine vehicle for 75% of the truck-buying public. Not much to add to the above, but the worst insult on the Tacoma forum I frequent is "You might want to look at the Ridgeline--seems like it would work for you." And not meant in a complementary way.

Probably the way Mustang forum members talk about Miatas...

Seriously, I would have considered one, but one of the reasons I got my Tacoma was tow capacity. Also, the Taco has a manual transmission. I wasn't really planning on offroading much, but the Taco is a great truck for that purpose.

The Ridgeline is more refined and electronically up to date. And drives more like a car, which lets face it appeals to all of us from time to time, like long trips.

The current styling is much improved, but IMO the profile isn't so attractive, and there's too much chrome. Or any chrome. Which I hate.

Not gonna lie I think the Taco is hands down the coolest and truckiest looking midsize truck out there. Anything else gets points off for how much it deviates from the Taco ideal.

Sorry, Honda.

joe_323

2nd February 2021, 20:10

baritone mike

2nd February 2021, 20:18

There is no way Honda is ever going to get this kind of street cred:

But leaf springs, stick axles and a frame. Why would anyone want one of those?:confused:

On a somewhat more serious note, is that an AA gun in the bed of the second truck?

Lance Schall

2nd February 2021, 20:26

TheBigFish

2nd February 2021, 20:48

Looks like a Soviet ZU-23-2

Hmmm...twin barrel 23mm cannon and a small truck suspension, wonder how that is gonna work?

Plus 2

2nd February 2021, 21:38

Google “The Toyota War”

The Toyota side won

DeanStevenson

2nd February 2021, 21:46

Looks like a Soviet ZU-23-2

Hmmm...twin barrel 23mm cannon and a small truck suspension, wonder how that is gonna work?

Probably not too accurate. (https://youtu.be/tNXSeMu38YM?t=84)

But you can build your own. (http://www.meng-model.com/en/contents/67/94.html)

Colo Springs E

3rd February 2021, 08:13

Not me.

The only pickup truck I've ever been interested in was that tiny Toyota truck they sold here back in the mid 80s. They were cheap, small and useful.

I'm with you, I used to love those little Toyotas. I also owned an 80s beater Datsun pickup which was awesome. The mountain bike I had mounted in the bed was worth probably 2x what the truck was haha

It's true people can buy what they want, it's their business. But I just think it's funny (and very American) to buy such large vehicles that will never be used as actual trucks. Their money, their right.... I just find it funny. (and annoying, when they don't know how to park those bohemoths)

memebag

3rd February 2021, 09:30

Tiny? I beg to differ. Just the right size to be useful. And they last pretty well forever - still using mine ('88) to haul hay & firewood, and get to skiing when the snow's too deep on the roads to take the Miata.

Maybe the one my friend had was different? I don't know model info. But it was tiny compared to any truck sold today.

I just found some info on Toyota trucks in 1983. The standard cab version weighed 2,350 lbs and was 171 inches long. It looks like the smallest Ridgeline is 4,200 lbs and 210 inches long.

I want a pickup that weighs 250 lbs less than my Miata.

Dry Martini

3rd February 2021, 09:51

Maybe the one my friend had was different? I don't know model info. But it was tiny compared to any truck sold today.

I just found some info on Toyota trucks in 1983. The standard cab version weighed 2,350 lbs and was 171 inches long. It looks like the smallest Ridgeline is 4,200 lbs and 210 inches long.

I want a pickup that weighs 250 lbs less than my Miata.

Then you will want one of these. Also available in 4WD.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210203/9224c4baaa952080d6e5ba6201182e00.jpg

wolf13

3rd February 2021, 10:43

:eek: WHOA! It has a trunk in the bed of the truck. So, you could put something in the trunk, then fill the bed with pinestraw and just look like a landscaper...

hmmmm.

Does that make Brian an accomplice for showing you that for anything you are allegedly doing?

BetweenMiatas

3rd February 2021, 10:48

It's true people can buy what they want, it's their business. But I just think it's funny (and very American) to buy such large vehicles that will never be used as actual trucks.

This same thought has been expressed several times. "People don't use their trucks as actual trucks."

How do you guys know that? Maybe they're your neighbors and you never see them use their truck in a trucky way. But (I hope) you don't follow them everywhere they go and watch everything they do. Maybe they DO use them occasionally for truck stuff. :dunno:

cajun312

3rd February 2021, 11:30

joe_323

3rd February 2021, 11:50

This same thought has been expressed several times. "People don't use their trucks as actual trucks."

How do you guys know that? Maybe they're your neighbors and you never see them use their truck in a trucky way. But (I hope) you don't follow them everywhere they go and watch everything they do. Maybe they DO use them occasionally for truck stuff. :dunno:

My buddy with the Ram truck just drives it mostly, but it does do truck stuff sometimes and always when I am borrowing it :thumbs:

Mellow

3rd February 2021, 12:00

I looked real hard at the Ridgeline. I like the FLAT underseat storage in the rear and the bed trunk. I also liked that the AWD version was FWD until AWD was needed. I don't have any need for an actual 4wd vehicle so AWD is better in bad weather IMO.

However, they did have some misc issues and in the end it was still 2-4k more than the 2019 Range 2wd Lariat I ended up with.. which I'm in love with.. .It's quicker than the Miata, believe it or not... lol

https://forum.miata.net/vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=340133&d=1596825388

Lance Schall

3rd February 2021, 12:04

Omar Rosales

3rd February 2021, 12:25

I'm with you, I used to love those little Toyotas. I also owned an 80s beater Datsun pickup which was awesome. The mountain bike I had mounted in the bed was worth probably 2x what the truck was haha

It's true people can buy what they want, it's their business. But I just think it's funny (and very American) to buy such large vehicles that will never be used as actual trucks. Their money, their right.... I just find it funny. (and annoying, when they don't know how to park those bohemoths)

I think it's funny that you prefer a sh*tbox that is a horrible daily driver and is barely usable as a truck because of the lack of power. I had one with the legendary 22r. It would barely make it up hills with my motorcycle loaded on it. It was uncomfortable, and not great gas mileage.

On the other hand, modern trucks like the Ridgeline are fantastic daily drivers and very usable as utility vehicles.

sloopercat

3rd February 2021, 12:26

I own 3 cars, the newest one is 24 years old, they all have a manual transmission and zero electronic driving aids and one of them has 2 solid axles and leaf springs on all 4 corners. Calling me a troglodyte wouldn't be all that unfair.:dunno:

Luddite may be more accurate.[emoji57]

jamesqf

3rd February 2021, 13:59

Maybe the one my friend had was different? I don't know model info. But it was tiny compared to any truck sold today.

I just found some info on Toyota trucks in 1983. The standard cab version weighed 2,350 lbs and was 171 inches long. It looks like the smallest Ridgeline is 4,200 lbs and 210 inches long.

But you're approaching this from the wrong perspective. Those Toyotas (and Datsuns, Mazdas, Chevy LUVs &c) were not tiny, they were reasonably sized. It is the pickups of today that are gargantuan. Most of them, anyway. The current Toyota Tacoma is merely oversized :-(

And as I said, I do use my "tiny" '80s Toyota for "truck stuff" - for anything else, it's the Miata.

That One Guy 2

3rd February 2021, 14:24

Mellow

3rd February 2021, 14:28

It's a shame the small trucks didn't stick around. Toyota ditched the regular cab Tacoma in 2015. All Tacomas are 4wd height now. The frontier is finally getting with the times with a price to match. There's a market for $22,000 basic trucks, dammit!

The Frontier is a great solid option and and any issues have been addressed, it's still in the mid-sized category though. I did have a 99 tacoma a few years back and while it was small, it felt like it inside... I had a hard time driving it for a long time however my other car at the time was a ford fiesta with tons of interior space.

FYI - tomorrow the new Frontier gets revealed, similar to the Ranger it will probably be a redesign of their Navara world wide truck.

TheBigFish

3rd February 2021, 14:54

Might be only half of a ZU-23-2. The barrels do fire separately and a resourceful insurgent would divide the weapon into a lighter single unit. Then they'd have two of them!

Still gonna rock the suspension unless they have some sorta support. I would love to see a video of them shooting one.

Stevester

3rd February 2021, 14:57

Not me.

The only pickup truck I've ever been interested in was that tiny Toyota truck they sold here back in the mid 80s. They were cheap, small and useful.

But I'm not in the market for a pickup, and neither is my wife.

LOL I guess I should have said, "so many people..."

I still have my '88 Toyita pickup. Unfortunately, it's a longbed (all that was left at model year end). The extra 12inches is sometimes a PITA (u-turns, parking, etc.); I have no desire to try to use one of today's trucks as a DD.

After reading all the posts, I was surprised to read that the Ridgeline is FWD. That's probably what kills it in the market. I still remember the HUGE uproar when Ford initially tried to call the Probe a Mustang. "Whaaat?? A FWD Mustang???" everyone cried.

Lance Schall

3rd February 2021, 15:02

patrickb37

3rd February 2021, 15:32

There's a market for $22,000 basic trucks, dammit!

The Ford Maverick due next year is probably as close as you're gonna get.

https://www.motortrend.com/news/2022-ford-maverick-everything-we-know/

baritone mike

3rd February 2021, 15:35

Still gonna rock the suspension unless they have some sorta support. I would love to see a video of them shooting one.

This is the video of them shooting one, yes it rocks the suspension a lot. The one in this video still has both barrels, the all knowing Wikipedia says these guns weigh about 2,100 lbs.

Probably not too accurate. (https://youtu.be/tNXSeMu38YM?t=84)

MX5Jeff

3rd February 2021, 15:47

I think it's funny that you prefer a sh*tbox that is a horrible daily driver and is barely usable as a truck because of the lack of power. I had one with the legendary 22r. It would barely make it up hills with my motorcycle loaded on it. It was uncomfortable, and not great gas mileage.

On the other hand, modern trucks like the Ridgeline are fantastic daily drivers and very usable as utility vehicles.

Good point. All vehicles from days gone by look better in the rear view mirror.

It's a shame the small trucks didn't stick around. Toyota ditched the regular cab Tacoma in 2015. All Tacomas are 4wd height now. The frontier is finally getting with the times with a price to match. There's a market for $22,000 basic trucks, dammit!

If there was a market for it the manufacturers would still be making it. Same with diesel. Not enough customers to justify the production. I still wish Subaru made the Baja too.

The Ford Maverick due next year is probably as close as you're gonna get.

https://www.motortrend.com/news/2022-ford-maverick-everything-we-know/

That actually looks pretty cool and might scratch the itch for a lot of people. Just a dressed up Camino though, really, isn't it? What will they do when they find out it isn't a REAL TRUCK??

MX5Jeff

3rd February 2021, 15:52

I looked real hard at the Ridgeline. I like the FLAT underseat storage in the rear and the bed trunk. I also liked that the AWD version was FWD until AWD was needed. I don't have any need for an actual 4wd vehicle so AWD is better in bad weather IMO.

However, they did have some misc issues and in the end it was still 2-4k more than the 2019 Range 2wd Lariat I ended up with.. which I'm in love with.. .It's quicker than the Miata, believe it or not... lol

https://forum.miata.net/vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=340133&d=1596825388

Lots of innovative features in the Ridgeline. AWD would be GREAT for the kind of weather we often get...clear streets except for some patches of snow. Driving to and from work during snowy weather I often spend a lot of time going between RWD and 4WD. I believe our old Avalanche had an AWD mode? Not sure, but for daily driving in snow AWD is often better.

MattAlley

3rd February 2021, 15:59

While I like the visuals of a Regular (single) cab truck a whole lot, in practice only an Extended cab (jump seats in back and suicide doors) will do for me. I just need to carry too much stuff in the cab in inclement weather, and leaving a locking truckbox in back (which I own) limits my effective bed size severely and is hard to get in and out if I need the full 6' of bed. Which I seem to every time I'm buying building materials.

The Ridgeline would probably work fine for me; my Frontier doesn't have lockers and I haven't managed to get it stuck yet, despite a lot of mucking around in 4Hi and a little bit in 4Lo. And AWD (vs. 4WD) for a truck on wet pavement would be very nice, most often when pulling out of a parking lot with oncoming traffic closing on you.

But dangit! They look sissy. End of story. I'm not as cultured as the Franco-philes amongst us; I've just never felt I should look to the French for pickup truck advice. If that makes me a troglodyte, then I'll resign myself to it.

MX5Jeff

3rd February 2021, 16:05

The Ridgeline would probably work fine for me; my Frontier doesn't have lockers and I haven't managed to get it stuck yet, despite a lot of mucking around in 4Hi and a little bit in 4Lo. And AWD (vs. 4WD) for a truck on wet pavement would be very nice, most often when pulling out of a parking lot with oncoming traffic closing on you.

I have rear lockers on my Tacoma and with a little bit of offroading have never used them yet. I would bet 95% of Tacoma owners with lockers never use them.

Colo Springs E

3rd February 2021, 16:28

This same thought has been expressed several times. "People don't use their trucks as actual trucks."

How do you guys know that? Maybe they're your neighbors and you never see them use their truck in a trucky way. But (I hope) you don't follow them everywhere they go and watch everything they do. Maybe they DO use them occasionally for truck stuff. :dunno:

I drink and I know things.

OK... I drink. :)

Fair point (kinda). But actually I have asked co-workers about their trucks, and sometimes they've even volunteered they don't use them for the truck capabilities. They just like them. And that's ok, to each their own. I mean some people probably never drop the top of their convertibles.

MattAlley

3rd February 2021, 16:34

I have rear lockers on my Tacoma and with a little bit of offroading have never used them yet. I would bet 95% of Tacoma owners with lockers never use them.

I've used the lockers on my Jeep many, many times, but very few of those have been when I was "doing" something necessary with the Jeep, like trying to pull a log I'd cut that was blocking a muddy dirt road, or backing a trailer up a muddy incline. The vast majority of the time it was needed during recreational use, when I was specifically going into places where lockers are needed, because I had lockers, which I have so I can go into places I don't need to go but which require lockers, which I would hate to own and never use. :D

On the other hand, if I lived in snow country, probably a whole nother story.

Lance Schall

3rd February 2021, 16:39

Orangello

3rd February 2021, 16:41

Then you will want one of these. Also available in 4WD.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210203/9224c4baaa952080d6e5ba6201182e00.jpg

The van version of these is kickass! One of the local rural route postal delivery people near here has one of these.

MattAlley

3rd February 2021, 16:45

I have ARB air lockers on both ends of mine. They allow you to get MORE stuck FURTHER from the pavement.:)

Exactly, which allows you to use your $1200 Warn winch which you wouldn't ever need if you didn't specifically go into places you would never go except for the express purpose of overwhelming your lockers so you could use your winch because... who wants to own a winch that never gets used? :D

TheBigFish

3rd February 2021, 17:02

This is the video of them shooting one, yes it rocks the suspension a lot. The one in this video still has both barrels, the all knowing Wikipedia says these guns weigh about 2,100 lbs.

Javelin bait...

MX5Jeff

3rd February 2021, 18:41

Exactly, which allows you to use your $1200 Warn winch which you wouldn't ever need if you didn't specifically go into places you would never go except for the express purpose of overwhelming your lockers so you could use your winch because... who wants to own a winch that never gets used? :D

That is what the wench sayeth.

express_wagon

3rd February 2021, 20:21

While I like the visuals of a Regular (single) cab truck a whole lot, in practice only an Extended cab (jump seats in back and suicide doors) will do for me. I just need to carry too much stuff in the cab in inclement weather, and leaving a locking truckbox in back (which I own) limits my effective bed size severely and is hard to get in and out if I need the full 6' of bed. Which I seem to every time I'm buying building materials.

The Ridgeline would probably work fine for me; my Frontier doesn't have lockers and I haven't managed to get it stuck yet, despite a lot of mucking around in 4Hi and a little bit in 4Lo. And AWD (vs. 4WD) for a truck on wet pavement would be very nice, most often when pulling out of a parking lot with oncoming traffic closing on you.

But dangit! They look sissy. End of story. I'm not as cultured as the Franco-philes amongst us; I've just never felt I should look to the French for pickup truck advice. If that makes me a troglodyte, then I'll resign myself to it.

A single cab truck might as well be a single seater vehicle. I find them to be uselese but definitely look good in a short bed configuration, like 1st gen Tacomas.

https://bringatrailer.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/12/1996_toyota_tacoma_15440465898495d565ef6DSC_4702.j pg?resize=620%2C414

baritone mike

3rd February 2021, 20:26

A single cab truck might as well be a single seater vehicle. I find them to be uselese but definitely look good in a short bed configuration, like 1st gen Tacomas.

Do you own a Miata? $500-$1000 on craigslist will turn the bed of that truck into a trunk easily 10x larger than all of the storage space in a Miata combined. Assuming it doesn't have a bench seat, the center console is probably also 4x the size of the Miata's.

HOKIES

3rd February 2021, 20:57

Why does Honda not sell moreridgeline’s? Well there’s probably no more competitive segment the automobile industry than trucks.

It is one thing that the “American” Manufacturers do well. Then you have the full size offerings from Toyota, Nissan. Not to mention the increasingly crowded midsize offerings.

So it’s a tough segment.

So where does the Honda fit in? Well it has a surprising payload. It’s comfortable, rides well, and reasonably fuel efficient. It’s a great little truck for towing a light utility trailer, going to the home-improvement for mulch or other smaller items. Towing motorcycles. Good rig to go tailgating with or taking some camping gear for tent camping.

A great truck for someone who does not need a lot of truck.
And not need more truck in the future.

You’re not going to do real towing. You’re not going to do any real heavy hauling with it. So in short if your lifestyle changes to where you’re doing more with your trust in you anticipated, you’re going to have to sell that rig and buy a more capable one.

That is where the Ridgeline falls short. It cannot hold a candle to a full sized rig in terms of what it can do for work and play.
And as far as a lifestyle truck it tends to pale beside the new Jeep, taco, and even the Frontier

I will never not have a truck. If you could only have one vehicle..a truck is what you need. It solves a lot of problems.
Cean it up and take it to town. Load up family and go out to dinner in comfort.
Load up the boat and visit other waterways other than where you normally frequent. Rent equipment and have the ability to take it to where You are working. Tow the camper.

I could go to Lowe’s or Home Depot and buy literally a ton of pavers and bring them home. (Love the ceramic tile in the ridgeline pic... once again impressive payload) And throw on top of that a bag of mulch.
Done it more than once.

And yes it will get me to work.

BTW if anyone is actually reading this thread considering what truck to buy..
If you are actually going to tow 6000 pounds...

Do not get anything less than a 1/2 ton, with a tow package

SRoss

4th February 2021, 01:01

A single cab truck might as well be a single seater vehicle. I find them to be uselese but definitely look good in a short bed configuration, like 1st gen Tacomas.
]

wha? single cab is the best config I find. Both the pickups I have owned have been single cab. Maximized bed size = maximized utility imho. If I want four seats and four doors, I drive my car. Minimizing truck driving is my main driving strategy because driving trucks of any kind SUCKS. It's a necessary evil.
note, my single cab pickup seats 3 pretty well and has room behind the seats to car a few Yeti coolers, or a bicycle, or maybe a couple german shepherds.

jamesqf

4th February 2021, 01:17

If there was a market for it the manufacturers would still be making it.

Doesn't work that way in the real world. Why did VW, then Honda, Toyota, &c take over a major share of the US auto market starting in the 1960s? Because there was a market for small, fuel-efficient cars (and trucks), but the US automakers weren't interested in filling it.

Or fast-forward to today, why did Musk have to start a car company to make electric vehicles?

A single cab truck might as well be a single seater vehicle.

Sure, just like Miatas :-) That's one reason I like them. Honestly, for me a second row of seats in a pickup is worse than useless, because it takes up space that could otherwise be used for the bed.

Colo Springs E

4th February 2021, 04:08

I will never not have a truck. If you could only have one vehicle..a truck is what you need. It solves a lot of problems.
Cean it up and take it to town. Load up family and go out to dinner in comfort.
Load up the boat and visit other waterways other than where you normally frequent. Rent equipment and have the ability to take it to where You are working. Tow the camper.

I could go to Lowe’s or Home Depot and buy literally a ton of pavers and bring them home. (Love the ceramic tile in the ridgeline pic... once again impressive payload) And throw on top of that a bag of mulch.
Done it more than once.

I view trucks like I view AWD vehicles.

Good for those 5-10 days a year when you actually "need" one. But that doesn't justify owning it the other 355 days, not for me anyway.

I'm a homeowner, and I haven't made a major Home Depot run in years. Any appliances we've bought in the last 5-10 years we just had delivered--usually for free. Next time I need a truck, I'll borrow my brother-in-law's or rent one for 2 hours for fiddy bucks.

Obviously if you have a camper or boat you regularly tow, or your work warrants owning a truck... that's a different story. Just not my story.

joe_323

4th February 2021, 08:56

LOL I guess I should have said, "so many people..."

I still have my '88 Toyita pickup. Unfortunately, it's a longbed (all that was left at model year end). The extra 12inches is sometimes a PITA (u-turns, parking, etc.); I have no desire to try to use one of today's trucks as a DD.

After reading all the posts, I was surprised to read that the Ridgeline is FWD. That's probably what kills it in the market. I still remember the HUGE uproar when Ford initially tried to call the Probe a Mustang. "Whaaat?? A FWD Mustang???" everyone cried.

At the time the Probe came out it drove WAY better than the Mustang of the day IMHO.

Kain

4th February 2021, 09:07

Honda just recently dropped the mid-cycle-refreshed 2021 Ridgeline with a "tougher" front end. I dig it:

https://editorials.autotrader.ca/media/191372/2021-honda-ridgeline-2.jpg?anchor=center&mode=crop&width=1920&height=1080&rnd=132551107680000000

HOKIES

4th February 2021, 09:36

“Just not my story “
And I can respect that.

That’s why things as simple as truck models can be as contrasting as a Subaru Brat and a 1 ton dully.

Each one has a role. to add to someone’s story

You know they sell 35 to 40,000 of those things a year. It’s not like there not having success with it.

express_wagon

4th February 2021, 09:39

Sure, just like Miatas :-) That's one reason I like them. Honestly, for me a second row of seats in a pickup is worse than useless, because it takes up space that could otherwise be used for the bed.

I'd love a crew cab over my current extended cab Tacoma, then I can actually put a car seat in it.

My bed is empty most of the time anyways and that's fine. I am an accoutant, not a contractor. I enjoy having it because I can. I think they are a lot of fun to drive too.

joe_323

4th February 2021, 10:27

I'd love a crew cab over my current extended cab Tacoma, then I can actually put a car seat in it.

My bed is empty most of the time anyways and that's fine. I am an accoutant, not a contractor. I enjoy having it because I can. I think they are a lot of fun to drive too.

I had a standard cab Ranger as a work truck and I hated that thing. Besides for being a POS to drive in general, there was NO PLACE to put something even as small as a lunchbox inside. If I ever buy a truck for myself it will have some room behind the seats.

Dry Martini

4th February 2021, 10:42

Sure, just like Miatas :-) That's one reason I like them. Honestly, for me a second row of seats in a pickup is worse than useless, because it takes up space that could otherwise be used for the bed.

I like the extended cab. That is room to store stuff and keep it dry and secure. My short bed is long enough for a motorcycle.

As for taking up space the bed could utilize, I believe there are quad cab trucks with full length beds.

joe_323

4th February 2021, 10:48

I like the extended cab. That is room to store stuff and keep it dry and secure. My short bed is long enough for a motorcycle.

As for taking up space the bed could utilize, I believe there are quad cab trucks with full length beds.

There are. Great for carrying 4 people and lots of stuff. Major PITA to park.

Dry Martini

4th February 2021, 10:51

There are. Great for carrying 4 people and lots of stuff. Major PITA to park.

Not around here. Our parking spaces are generously sized.

rloewy

4th February 2021, 11:10

It's a shame the small trucks didn't stick around. Toyota ditched the regular cab Tacoma in 2015. All Tacomas are 4wd height now. The frontier is finally getting with the times with a price to match. There's a market for $22,000 basic trucks, dammit!

Isn't Hyundai coming with one next year? I bet it will sell like hotcakes.

express_wagon

4th February 2021, 12:23

I had a standard cab Ranger as a work truck and I hated that thing. Besides for being a POS to drive in general, there was NO PLACE to put something even as small as a lunchbox inside. If I ever buy a truck for myself it will have some room behind the seats.

I have never owned a single cab myself but one of my best friend is a die hard single cab guy. One time, he decided to drive from Boston to NYC for a set of wheels he wanted. We took his truck. He took his big cooler on the trip since he has food allergies to basically everything. Cooler obviously sat between us. I felt like sitting in an airplane bathroom for 8 hours that day.

illinifan

4th February 2021, 12:59

BetweenMiatas

4th February 2021, 13:05

I have ARB air lockers on both ends of mine. They allow you to get MORE stuck FURTHER from the pavement.:)

What a deal! :thumbs:

BetweenMiatas

4th February 2021, 13:10

Honda just recently dropped the mid-cycle-refreshed 2021 Ridgeline with a "tougher" front end. I dig it:

https://editorials.autotrader.ca/media/191372/2021-honda-ridgeline-2.jpg?anchor=center&mode=crop&width=1920&height=1080&rnd=132551107680000000

And look! There's a body line between the cab and the bed, to make it look like a body-on-frame truck!

baritone mike

4th February 2021, 13:13

Honda just recently dropped the mid-cycle-refreshed 2021 Ridgeline with a "tougher" front end. I dig it:

That one is actually good looking.

joe_323

4th February 2021, 13:21

BetweenMiatas

4th February 2021, 13:22

Yes it is - the fake cab and bed seam make it look like a real truck and the front end does too.
Hey - anyone remember the diesel Rabbit VW pickup?

Oh, yes. They come out of the woodwork every time gas prices get high.

Gumpus

4th February 2021, 13:55

Chris Stack

4th February 2021, 14:05

Problem with single cab trucks is that you then have no space for anything that you don’t want out in the elements or possibly stolen. Unless you get a lockable tonneau cover or one of those mounted truck toolbox things both of which (wait for it) basically reduce the bed size!

Unless you are often hauling long sports equipment (motorcycle, snowmobile, etc) or 8’ lumber, you probably don’t need an 8’ bed regularly and can make do with a 6’ and a crew cab. Or, and this is radical, on the occasions you do need 8’ of bed space for that 2x a year you haul plywood, trucks are really good at towing trailers too!

Omar Rosales

4th February 2021, 14:06

Looks like Honda made the Ridgeline look much more like an F150 like Nissan does with the Titan and Toyota did with the original Tundra. Interesting that they all struggle to take a big chunk of the market even though they have good products.

Toyota consistently sells over 100,000 Tundras a year. Nowhere near the number of Ford/Chevy/Ram, but I wouldn't call it a struggle either.

jamesqf

4th February 2021, 14:18

I'd love a crew cab over my current extended cab Tacoma, then I can actually put a car seat in it.

Do you mean a car seat for an infant? But I have no reason to have one of those in my vehicle - whether pickup or Miata.

My bed is empty most of the time anyways and that's fine. I am an accoutant, not a contractor. I enjoy having it because I can. I think they are a lot of fun to drive too.

Different strokes. I think pickups are miserable to drive*, so I basically only drive mine when I need its capabilities - hauling, or going through deep snow or rough dirt.

*And I've driven a reasonable selection, starting with the '48 or so Chevy the parents had when I was a teen, the Toyotas & Datsun that I've owned over the years, any number of work trucks, down to the Lincoln luxury pickup my friends bought a while back. Only one that was halfway decent was the mid-70s Toyota "Sport Truck".

Problem with single cab trucks is that you then have no space for anything that you don’t want out in the elements or possibly stolen. Unless you get a lockable tonneau cover or one of those mounted truck toolbox things both of which (wait for it) basically reduce the bed size!

If that's your problem, you can always put a shell on it :-)

Unless you are often hauling long sports equipment (motorcycle, snowmobile, etc) or 8’ lumber, you probably don’t need an 8’ bed regularly and can make do with a 6’ and a crew cab. Or, and this is radical, on the occasions you do need 8’ of bed space for that 2x a year you haul plywood, trucks are really good at towing trailers too!

6' bed in a crew cab? Just eyeballing them, most look like they have a 4' bed, unless they have a really long wheelbase. Can't get much hay or firewood in one of those (I've seen friends try), and I haul that sort of thing much more often than twice a year. While the times I'd want to put stuff in a crew cab... Well, I suppose it's possible, but it hasn't happened yet.

ThatsABigOne

4th February 2021, 15:32

That One Guy 2

4th February 2021, 15:32

Toyota consistently sells over 100,000 Tundras a year. Nowhere near the number of Ford/Chevy/Ram, but I wouldn't call it a struggle either.

Not bad at all considering how absolutely ancient the current Tundra is. Same chassis/platform and drivetrain since model year 2007.

Chris Stack

4th February 2021, 15:37

Do you mean a car seat for an infant? But I have no reason to have one of those in my vehicle - whether pickup or Miata.

Different strokes. I think pickups are miserable to drive*, so I basically only drive mine when I need its capabilities - hauling, or going through deep snow or rough dirt.

*And I've driven a reasonable selection, starting with the '48 or so Chevy the parents had when I was a teen, the Toyotas & Datsun that I've owned over the years, any number of work trucks, down to the Lincoln luxury pickup my friends bought a while back. Only one that was halfway decent was the mid-70s Toyota "Sport Truck".

If that's your problem, you can always put a shell on it :-)

6' bed in a crew cab? Just eyeballing them, most look like they have a 4' bed, unless they have a really long wheelbase. Can't get much hay or firewood in one of those (I've seen friends try), and I haul that sort of thing much more often than twice a year. While the times I'd want to put stuff in a crew cab... Well, I suppose it's possible, but it hasn't happened yet.

4’? Most are 5.5’-6.5’.

Chris Stack

4th February 2021, 15:38

Not bad at all considering how absolutely ancient the current Tundra is. Same chassis/platform and drivetrain since model year 2007.

Plus the Taco does another ~200k.

cajun312

4th February 2021, 15:53

Revamped Nissan Frontier will be competition for the Ridgeline.

https://www.autoweek.com/news/trucks/a35414403/new-nissan-frontier/

MattAlley

4th February 2021, 16:01

Revamped Nissan Frontier will be competition for the Ridgeline.

https://www.autoweek.com/news/trucks/a35414403/new-nissan-frontier/

Good looking.

Somebody on here (ChickDr?) bought a new 2020 SV 4x4 last year in Atlanta for $25k, on a 33k MSRP, iirc. Be interesting to see how much more these replacements go for.

Gumpus

4th February 2021, 17:52

Toyota consistently sells over 100,000 Tundras a year. Nowhere near the number of Ford/Chevy/Ram, but I wouldn't call it a struggle either.

Yes, fair comment. 100,000+ units is respectable. I think Titan sold 80,000 annually early on. I worked for Ford when the Tundra, Ridgeline, and Titan came out. All were great-driving Japanese vehicles and perceived as major threats. The V8 in the Tundra was awesome and even the V6 drove great...both exuded Toyota quality. The 5.6 4-valve V8 in the Titan was more than competitive. The ride of the Ridgeline was phenomenal compared to any other truck and the Honda reputation was always strong. But none of them made a big splash or became dominant in the market like Camry/Accord.

MattAlley

4th February 2021, 17:57

But none of them made a big splash or became dominant in the market like Camry/Accord.

Perhaps this was because it was 30 years after the Accord started stealing tremendous volume from the domestics that the big trucks came out, and by that point GM and Ford had lost a lot of their hubris and understood (as you stated) that the Japanese full-size efforts were serious trucks presenting a serious threat, and as a result got on the stick right away and started vastly improving their own product?

I suspect the Titan/Tundra would have done a lot better if GM and Ford had continued selling 1985 1500s and F150s in 2004 when the Titan launched, like they were doing in 1976 when the Accord debuted.

Gumpus

4th February 2021, 18:18

Not bad at all considering how absolutely ancient the current Tundra is. Same chassis/platform and drivetrain since model year 2007.

On the other hand check out 4-Runner sales volumes. Same vehicle produced since 2010 and sales volumes are still at 130,000 year...three times the first year volume! It's ancient for sure...based on the previous generation Tacoma platform and powertrain. Maybe Chevy and Ford should have continued with body on frame construction for the Blazer and Explorer.

https://www.goodcarbadcar.net/toyota-4runner-sales-figures/

Chris Stack

4th February 2021, 18:50

On the other hand check out 4-Runner sales volumes. Same vehicle produced since 2010 and sales volumes are still at 130,000 year...three times the first year volume! It's ancient for sure...based on the previous generation Tacoma platform and powertrain. Maybe Chevy and Ford should have continued with body on frame construction for the Blazer and Explorer.

https://www.goodcarbadcar.net/toyota-4runner-sales-figures/

If the 4Runner had a modern transmission, not an ancient 5AT, I’d be strongly considering it for my next ride.

MX-5speed

4th February 2021, 20:00

Yes it is - the fake cab and bed seam make it look like a real truck and the front end does too.
Hey - anyone remember the diesel Rabbit VW pickup?
It’s not a fake seam. Separate bed, but more more complex than a traditional bolt on bed. There are frame rails under the truck that kinda link two separate unibody structures together.

http://www.trucktrend.com/how-to/chassis-suspension/1705-honda-ridgelines-frame-the-untold-story/

twowheeled

5th February 2021, 00:27

joe_323

5th February 2021, 07:39

my rub with the truck segment is there is nothing lighter duty than the ridgeline. I'd love to own a modern subaru baja or el camino type of truck. The only thing I need a truck for is to haul a motorcycle or dirt bike with, and once in awhile transport a large bulky object like an appliance or a kayak.

Remember the Mazda trucks that were about the cheapest new vehicle you could buy? I think it was a B2000?

2ndOne

5th February 2021, 08:01

The 2021 is the best looking one yet. I'll have mine in blue please. :)

This shows the RTL package, $39470 msrp:
https://forum.miata.net/vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=353009&stc=1&d=1612526421

MX5Jeff

5th February 2021, 10:43

BTW if anyone is actually reading this thread considering what truck to buy..
If you are actually going to tow 6000 pounds...

Do not get anything less than a 1/2 ton, with a tow package

Agree 100%. You're not going to have fun towing anything more than 2/3 of the TC on a consistent basis. Anything over 4000# needs a full-size truck.

Doesn't work that way in the real world. Why did VW, then Honda, Toyota, &c take over a major share of the US auto market starting in the 1960s? Because there was a market for small, fuel-efficient cars (and trucks), but the US automakers weren't interested in filling it.

Or fast-forward to today, why did Musk have to start a car company to make electric vehicles?

I hate to break it to you but Toyota used to make a small single cab truck and in fact still does make one--the Hilux, available in overseas markets. It's also available in a diesel. On the Tacoma forum people start threads all the time why doesn't Toyo bring the Hilux over here. Because they are businessmen and know their market. There's a market for gas Tacomas with extended or double cab, and not for single cab or diesel Hiluxes.

As far as Tesla, electric cars have been around 100 years, and the majors have been making electrics for 25 years, when Elon was still as Stanford. Kudoes to him, but he didn't invent the EV segment.

MX5Jeff

5th February 2021, 10:49

Toyota consistently sells over 100,000 Tundras a year. Nowhere near the number of Ford/Chevy/Ram, but I wouldn't call it a struggle either.

A lot of the F150s as well as the others are fleet trucks or work trucks, which pushes up the sales figures. No doubt the F150 is a good truck, even though some of the engine configurations get criticism for reliability.

Can't deal with the giant grills of the Silverado, but the GMC is the best looking of the full-size trucks IMO. Like that tailgate too. Not a fan of the Tundra--needs an update badly.

We had an Avalanche a few years ago that was a great truck...basically a debadged Escalade. Great truck, but lousy gas mileage and not cheap. My fiancee's truck--I think it retailed in the $50's, but she got it for $45K or something. Still a lot for a truck. She hated DD'ing it and trying to park it in her company's garage. That and gas mileage are the real benefits of the midsize truck.

express_wagon

5th February 2021, 11:29

We had an Avalanche a few years ago that was a great truck...basically a debadged Escalade. Great truck, but lousy gas mileage and not cheap. My fiancee's truck--I think it retailed in the $50's, but she got it for $45K or something. Still a lot for a truck. She hated DD'ing it and trying to park it in her company's garage. That and gas mileage are the real benefits of the midsize truck.

Haha, that's the first time I've heard someone say an Avalanche is a debadged Escalade rather than an Escalade is a fancy Avalanche w/wood trim and more chrome.

MX5Jeff

5th February 2021, 11:32

The 2021 is the best looking one yet. I'll have mine in blue please. :)

This shows the RTL package, $39470 msrp:
https://forum.miata.net/vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=353009&stc=1&d=1612526421

That doesn't look bad at all...wonder if there's a chrome delete version...

Revamped Nissan Frontier will be competition for the Ridgeline.

https://www.autoweek.com/news/trucks/a35414403/new-nissan-frontier/

https://hips.hearstapps.com/hmg-prod.s3.amazonaws.com/images/2022-frontier-9-min-1612455105.jpg

Looks good--frankly the cab sides and black plastic fenders and wheels and even color look just like my Tacoma. I guess imitation is the sincerest form of flattery.

More HP should be a winner. Reliability...well Nissan hasn't been on a par with Toyota in recent years, but we'll see. (Plus Nissan dealers get a bad rap around here...not sure if deserved.)

MX5Jeff

5th February 2021, 11:41

Haha, that's the first time I've heard someone say an Avalanche is a debadged Escalade rather than an Escalade is a fancy Avalanche w/wood trim and more chrome.

There's a fine line between tasteful and tacky. I think our Avalanche in Mocha with matching exterior trim was tasteful. Escalades just look excessive and bug the crap out of me.

BTW, the Avalanche had a lot of innovative features. It had an AWD mode, which is a great feature that I wish my Taco had. It had a brake controller and overdrive delete mode for towing.

You could remove the rear window so it was completely open. You could fold down the rear seats so there was a pass-through to the trunk.

Ours came with a heavy-duty 3-piece tonneau cover. With the cover on and the seats folded down, you could haul 4/x8s or something similar completely covered and locked up. You could put in an inflatable bed for camping.

It sure was a great truck.

The Driver

5th February 2021, 14:03

I view trucks like I view AWD vehicles.

Good for those 5-10 days a year when you actually "need" one. But that doesn't justify owning it the other 355 days, not for me anyway.

I'm a homeowner, and I haven't made a major Home Depot run in years. Any appliances we've bought in the last 5-10 years we just had delivered--usually for free. Next time I need a truck, I'll borrow my brother-in-law's or rent one for 2 hours for fiddy bucks.

Obviously if you have a camper or boat you regularly tow, or your work warrants owning a truck... that's a different story. Just not my story.

My 2002 4WD TRD Extra Cab Tacoma was going to skiing slopes at least 25 times a season until my fateful Miata crash in 2017. I should be able to hit the slopes again in the 2021-22 season. On top of that, it regularly gets into muddy and somewhat rocky trails in Colorado, Utah and NM. What's the point of going through the expense of living in Colorado if one is not going to enjoy all the nature that surrounds the area?

Frankly for non outdoor people living in Colorado (and Lord knows I have worked with far too many of those) might as well move to Peoria, Iowa City or Sioux Falls. If great roads is one is after, NM and Utah have those galore with a far lower cost of living, and in NM the food is FAR better than in Colorado!

express_wagon

5th February 2021, 14:09

There's a fine line between tasteful and tacky. I think our Avalanche in Mocha with matching exterior trim was tasteful. Escalades just look excessive and bug the crap out of me.

BTW, the Avalanche had a lot of innovative features. It had an AWD mode, which is a great feature that I wish my Taco had. It had a brake controller and overdrive delete mode for towing.

You could remove the rear window so it was completely open. You could fold down the rear seats so there was a pass-through to the trunk.

Ours came with a heavy-duty 3-piece tonneau cover. With the cover on and the seats folded down, you could haul 4/x8s or something similar completely covered and locked up. You could put in an inflatable bed for camping.

It sure was a great truck.

I know what the Avalanche brought to the table, I personally think the final years with the single color exterior was the best they offered. I just think it's pretty funny to call it a debadged Cadillac.

jamesqf

5th February 2021, 15:19

I hate to break it to you but Toyota used to make a small single cab truck and in fact still does make one--the Hilux, available in overseas markets. It's also available in a diesel. On the Tacoma forum people start threads all the time why doesn't Toyo bring the Hilux over here. Because they are businessmen and know their market. There's a market for gas Tacomas with extended or double cab, and not for single cab or diesel Hiluxes.

I know they made them - I have one* sitting in my driveway :-) But tell me this: if there's no market for small single-cab Toyota pickups, why do they command relatively high prices on the used market? And why are there forums devoted to them (and for years when they were just "Toyota pickups", not "Tacomas")? And lots of suppliers for parts & upgrades?

Of course part of the reason is that Toyota built them too well, so a lot are still on the road (or off-roading) after 30+ years.

*And long ago owned one of the first HiLuxes imported into the US, a '68 model IIRC.

MX5Jeff

5th February 2021, 15:27

I know what the Avalanche brought to the table, I personally think the final years with the single color exterior was the best they offered. I just think it's pretty funny to call it a debadged Cadillac.

I know you know what the Avalanche brought to the table. Just pointing it out for everyone else.

I know they made them - I have one* sitting in my driveway :-) But tell me this: if there's no market for small single-cab Toyota pickups, why do they command relatively high prices on the used market? And why are there forums devoted to them (and for years when they were just "Toyota pickups", not "Tacomas")? And lots of suppliers for parts & upgrades?

Of course part of the reason is that Toyota built them too well, so a lot are still on the road (or off-roading) after 30+ years.

*And long ago owned one of the first HiLuxes imported into the US, a '68 model IIRC.

I know you know they made them. Just funnin’ ya.

Why doesn’t Mazda make small trucks anymore? Same argument.

In the case of Toyota they literally have the factories making them, they just don’t see the benefit of bringing them to the American market and diluting their successful product line in the US.

illinifan

5th February 2021, 15:45

Colo Springs E

5th February 2021, 20:17

MX5Jeff

5th February 2021, 20:20

I found that ancient 5spd and the 4 liter to be a pretty good power train, as long as you were expecting it to drive like a truck. Much better than the newer 3.5L/6 spd in the Taco which wants to constantly upshift early.

Supposedly that was fixed for the ‘19 or ‘20 MY for the Taco. I have a manual, so doesn’t bother me at all. :)

The 4Runner like the Frontier is long overdue for a remodel. It will almost certainly get the same engine/transmission as the Tacoma when that happens.

Red_5

5th February 2021, 20:50

I haven't read all the pages of responses but I personally don't like the way the current Ridgeline looks. I liked the first generation but no this one. I haven't seen the facelift version in person yet but it doesn't look good in the photos I've seen.

I drive a Sierra 1500 most days and other than its size, I don't mind how it drives. I have aftermarket Bilsteins on it so it's better than stock but still a truck. I have a couple of trailers that I tow so I can't really go any smaller for truck duty at this point.

Honda also doesn't have the reliability ratings it once had so that isn't even really a reason to get one. I've owned a few Hondas and really, they don't offer any vehicles currently that I wouldn't rather have from another brand. Most likely it would be a Mazda or Toyota.

As a truck owner, I really don't see the reason to buy a current Ridgeline. Maybe if it was my only vehicle and I didn't need to tow? Today's trucks drive perfectly fine so I don't see the Ridgeline's slightly better driving dynamics to be enough to overcome its truckly shortcomings.

sloopercat

6th February 2021, 08:22

MattAlley

6th February 2021, 08:30

1) Honda also doesn't have the reliability ratings it once had so that isn't even really a reason to get one.

2) Today's trucks drive perfectly fine so I don't see the Ridgeline's slightly better driving dynamics to be enough to overcome its truckly shortcomings.

I’ll add 3) It don’t look purdy, and we can /thread.

No. 2 sound familiar? It’s the main answer to all the similar “Why don’t sportscars sell in the numbers they once did” threads. Today’s sport sedans and even sport-SUVs drive so well that for the vast, unwashed masses of drivers, even “enthusiast” drivers, the “sportscarly shortcomings”, to borrow from Red5, aren’t sufficiently offset by the “slightly better driving dynamics.” Now, for what I’ll call hardcore enthuiasts, particularly those with multiple cars, it’s worth it and they continue to buy sports cars. But most people, even those who demand the driving dynamics that used to be almost exclusively the purview of European cars, find the drive they’re looking for in sedans and CUVs, and it’s just not worth the hassle to squeeze into a tiny “low-slung” sportscar, nor the hassle and expense of owning an extra sportscar.

So with trucks, that “slightly better driving dynamic” I assume the car-like Honda has (I’ve never actually been inside one) must not be “better enough” than the perfectly acceptable feel my Frontier offers to get many people to switch. Even my wife is perfectly content to ride in the Frontier, but she hates riding in the MINI and the Jeep and the Sportscar. So perhaps Honda has solved a truck problem that really doesn’t exist anymore. If they had brought out the Ridgeline back when the answer to “better driving dynamics in a pickup” was spelled “L Camino”, perhaps they would have fared better.

Dry Martini

6th February 2021, 08:37

Comparing a Ridgeline to a full size truck is missing the point. It’s a midsize/compact truck with much better driving dynamics and comfort while still being able to do what most of what a smaller truck can do.

Not for this thread topic. Certain members have mentioned full size trucks.

As for me, I’ll take my 2006 S10 4WD ZR2. The fact that it drives like a truck does not bother me. If I wanted a car like ride, I would drive a car.

This truck is also my daily commuter. I have pulled a motorcycle and taken trips in this truck.

Red_5

6th February 2021, 10:14

. . . I personally don't like the way the current Ridgeline looks. I liked the first generation but not this one. I haven't seen the facelift version in person yet but it doesn't look good in the photos I've seen.

I’ll add 3) It don’t look purdy, and we can /thread.

I guess you missed where I said that too.;)

Red_5

6th February 2021, 10:26

Comparing a Ridgeline to a full size truck is missing the point. It’s a midsize/compact truck with much better driving dynamics and comfort while still being able to do what most of what a smaller truck can do.

I was only using my personal experience for comparison, I get that the Ridgeline is a midsize truck. When I bought my Sierra, I had a Canyon diesel ordered but that truck was delayed because of VW's Dieselgate. For tax reasons, my truck had to be purchased by the end of the calendar year we were in.

Traditional trucks have been selling very well for a long time. They're as comfortable and capable as ever. Those who make traditional trucks, for the most part, have the desired look down. The Ridgeline isn't checking the boxes of most truck buyers both objectively and subjectively. The Ridgeline is a niche vehicle, maybe they should call it a Pilot Transport or something instead.

MX-5speed

6th February 2021, 11:00

MattAlley

6th February 2021, 11:21

I test drove a used Ridgeline this week at a dealer. When speaking with the salesman he indicated that Honda would like to sell more, but it’s considered a sales success. The truck was a “cheap” way for Honda to fill a gap in the lineup and add a few thousand units a year. Would have been a massive financial risk to take on the established players by building a new plant to build a traditional body on frame truck.

Kind of surprised they didn't just rebadge somebody else's product if that was their thinking, ala the Isuzu Trooper/Honda Passport back in the day. Pick up some Isuzu pickup (isn't that all they make now?) and slap a Honda badge on it, voila!

Rich Wilkman

6th February 2021, 11:36

Not that simple. Mazda rebadged Rangers but they still had to re-badge a vehicle that was already being sold in the US. Modifying a vehicle that you already make, already passes all the US regs and matching production to sales volume very well makes more sense.

If I can just suss out the odd noise my 2020 Ridgeline is making I'd be very happy with it. It replaced my Tundra that was used pretty often as a truck (haul gravel, sand, boulders, sheet goods). I need to do that a lot less now but the Ridgeline is a nice small truck that can actually put the sheet goods between the wheel wells. The in-bed trunk is pretty handy and the interior is roomy and quiet.

-Rich

Kind of surprised they didn't just rebadge somebody else's product if that was their thinking, ala the Isuzu Trooper/Honda Passport back in the day. Pick up some Isuzu pickup (isn't that all they make now?) and slap a Honda badge on it, voila!

Red_5

6th February 2021, 11:38

Kind of surprised they didn't just rebadge somebody else's product if that was their thinking, ala the Isuzu Trooper/Honda Passport back in the day. Pick up some Isuzu pickup (isn't that all they make now?) and slap a Honda badge on it, voila!

Isn’t the Isuzu already a rebadged Chevy Colorado? That would be something.

MattAlley

6th February 2021, 12:27

Not that simple. Mazda rebadged Rangers but they still had to re-badge a vehicle that was already being sold in the US. Modifying a vehicle that you already make, already passes all the US regs and matching production to sales volume very well makes more sense.

If I can just suss out the odd noise my 2020 Ridgeline is making I'd be very happy with it. It replaced my Tundra that was used pretty often as a truck (haul gravel, sand, boulders, sheet goods). I need to do that a lot less now but the Ridgeline is a nice small truck that can actually put the sheet goods between the wheel wells. The in-bed trunk is pretty handy and the interior is roomy and quiet.

-Rich

Certifying an existing ROW truck and badging it as a Honda has to be about two billion dollars cheaper than starting from scratch and building your own, and if you don't care about the segment any more than was suggested in MX-5Speed's anecdotal dealership comment, then this is the way to go. Which they did in the 90s with two different Isuzu models, iirc.

I wasn't suggesting Honda should go this way, just attempting to demonstrate the unlikelihood of the accuracy of this statement: The truck was a “cheap” way for Honda to fill a gap in the lineup and add a few thousand units a yeargiven that there is a cheaper and quicker way to do that.

Mazda23Miata

6th February 2021, 12:38

MattAlley

6th February 2021, 12:43

^^ Speaking of which, I pulled up next to an F650 pickup this week. Wow! That's some serious truck. Made me rethink my puny little Frontier. I may have to get on TruckTrader soon.

https://www.carscoops.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/04/ford-f640-pickup-custom-auction-12.jpg

Gumpus

6th February 2021, 12:53

If the 4Runner had a modern transmission, not an ancient 5AT, I’d be strongly considering it for my next ride.

Yes, it's a dinosaur. A dinosaur made in Japan on a Lexus assembly line with 100% Japanese parts. I love mine. If you look at the gear ratios they are basically identical to a Honda 6-speed but 6th is missing. But cruising over 80 mph is not the vehicle's strength. I like that the transmission never hunts for a gear and rarely needs to downshift. The vehicle weight and gas mileage are just a little worse than the latest/greatest unibody SUV's. The 4.0 pulls strongly from 1100 rpm to 6000, the hp and torque are respectable and it's in a mild state of tune. 2022 may be the last year you can get to a real deal dinosaur before it goes onto a new shared platform with the Tundra and likely moves production to the US.

Mazda23Miata

6th February 2021, 12:54

BetweenMiatas

6th February 2021, 13:22

Not for this thread topic. Certain members have mentioned full size trucks.

As for me, I’ll take my 2006 S10 4WD ZR2. The fact that it drives like a truck does not bother me. If I wanted a car like ride, I would drive a car.

This truck is also my daily commuter. I have pulled a motorcycle and taken trips in this truck.

I dig those ZR2s.

BetweenMiatas

6th February 2021, 13:26

I wasn't suggesting Honda should go this way, just attempting to demonstrate the unlikelihood of the accuracy of this statement: given that there is a cheaper and quicker way to do that.

I knew a Honda fan who had purchased one of those Honda-badged Isuzus. He was not amused. I suppose Honda heard from their customers and decided it was wiser to build their own.

BetweenMiatas

6th February 2021, 13:28

^^ Speaking of which, I pulled up next to an F650 pickup this week. Wow! That's some serious truck. Made me rethink my puny little Frontier. I may have to get on TruckTrader soon.

https://www.carscoops.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/04/ford-f640-pickup-custom-auction-12.jpg

That'll take up the whole alley next to your house, and then your neighbors won't be able to get home.

BetweenMiatas

6th February 2021, 13:30

But why? Why are looks so important? One of my cars is a 2020 Veloster turbo, nothing to look at but great fun to drive. I see my vehicles for perhaps 30 seconds as I approach them but then spend hours behind the wheel driving. I much prefer the driving experience.

That 30 seconds is important; and, you can have both great looks and a wonderful driving experience.

I am certain that if you have two cars with a very similar driving experience and price, but one looks better than the other to a majority of people, that the better-looking one will sell in greater quantities.

MattAlley

6th February 2021, 13:46

That'll take up the whole alley next to your house, and then your neighbors won't be able to get home.

Good point, but I bet they’ll be scared to say anything to me, for fear I’ll just throw a chain around their house and pull it off the foundation.

MattAlley

6th February 2021, 13:48

But why? Why are looks so important?

I’d rather have a loyal, smart, kind and ugly wife than an unfaithful, dumb, mean and beautiful one.

If those were the only two choices...

BetweenMiatas

6th February 2021, 13:48

Good point, but I bet they’ll be scared to say anything to me, for fear I’ll just throw a chain around their house and pull it off the foundation.

On the bright side, it should yield a few more sightings for your "Street-Parked in the Hood" thread.

Mazda23Miata

6th February 2021, 14:02

Dry Martini

6th February 2021, 14:03

But why? Why are looks so important? One of my cars is a 2020 Veloster turbo, nothing to look at but great fun to drive. I see my vehicles for perhaps 30 seconds as I approach them but then spend hours behind the wheel driving. I much prefer the driving experience.

Because I know what my vehicles look like, even when I do not see them. Life is too short for boring/ugly vehicles!

A car manufacturer should be able to make a fun car that performs well, and also be appealing to look at.

Dry Martini

6th February 2021, 14:08

I’d rather have a loyal, smart, kind and ugly wife than an unfaithful, dumb, mean and beautiful one.

If those were the only two choices...

Stacking the deck, aren’t you? I mean if the hot wife is ALL those other things, I would probably opt for neither as my answer.

Actually, you make the ugly wife sound more like a dog than a woman. :D

sloopercat

6th February 2021, 14:09

I own a Frontier now, it still exhibits the bed stutter inherent in the body on frame stick axle design. I am adding a rear sway and some steering rack bushings, but no way will it be considered a good handling vehicle, just better.

The Ridgeline is in another league of NVH and handles better than most full size sedans. Ridgeline had zero truck like handling behavior, it drives like the SUV platform it was derived from. The car mags claimed the suspension tuning was much better on the Ridgeline, and you don’t have all that sheet metal up top.

MattAlley

6th February 2021, 14:09

Stacking the deck, aren’t you? I mean if the hot wife is ALL those other things, I would probably opt for neither as my answer.

Actually, you make the ugly wife sound more like a dog than a woman.

Perhaps you missed the last sentence?

jamesqf

6th February 2021, 14:24

Why doesn’t Mazda make small trucks anymore? Same argument.

In the case of Toyota they literally have the factories making them, they just don’t see the benefit of bringing them to the American market and diluting their successful product line in the US.

Yet there are plenty of examples of automobile manufacturers getting the marketing thing wrong, from individual models like the Edsel, Chevy Vega & Pontiac Aztez to the decimation of the US auto industry starting in the '60s.

Dry Martini

6th February 2021, 14:42

Perhaps you missed the last sentence?

No. I refuse to select between two choices, neither of which I like.

You still stacked the deck against the beautiful wife. I could put up with a beautiful and dumb, beautiful and mean (think Ava Gardner :cool:), and even beautiful and unfaithful (if she is cheating, then so can I. If that is the case, and cheating is an option, then not marrying either would also have to be an option).

sloopercat

6th February 2021, 14:43

No. I refuse to select between two choices, neither of which I dislike.

You still stacked the deck against the beautiful wife. I could put up with a beautiful and dumb, beautiful and mean (think Ava Gardner :cool:), and even beautiful and unfaithful (if she is cheating, then so can I. If that is the case, and cheating is an option, then not marrying either would also have to be an option).

Would that be the equivalent of a lease?

Dry Martini

6th February 2021, 14:49

Would that be the equivalent of a lease?

A short term lease.

express_wagon

6th February 2021, 15:04

Certifying an existing ROW truck and badging it as a Honda has to be about two billion dollars cheaper than starting from scratch and building your own, and if you don't care about the segment any more than was suggested in MX-5Speed's anecdotal dealership comment, then this is the way to go. Which they did in the 90s with two different Isuzu models, iirc.

I wasn't suggesting Honda should go this way, just attempting to demonstrate the unlikelihood of the accuracy of this statement: given that there is a cheaper and quicker way to do that.

The Ridgeline is hardly starting from scratch. It's like saying the Frontier and the Xterra are two completely different vehicles.

Capn Crass

6th February 2021, 15:12

I’d rather have a loyal, smart, kind and ugly wife than an unfaithful, dumb, mean and beautiful one.

If those were the only two choices...

I seem to recall some sage advice (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qh9ZZgDqzAg) on exactly that subject...

Barefoot

6th February 2021, 15:51

Yet there are plenty of examples of automobile manufacturers getting the marketing thing wrong, from individual models like the Edsel, Chevy Vega & Pontiac Aztez to the decimation of the US auto industry starting in the '60s.

The problem with the Aztek was not the marketing...

Omar Rosales

6th February 2021, 17:27

Yes, but most American buyers are uninformed. I remember the original Sentra SER. A truly fantastic car, nothing even close at the price, failed in the US largely due to looks. Even one of the major automotive magazines warned buy it or it will go away. I don't care how it looked at 64 years old if I could have one new car of my choice in the driveway it would be a first gen SER. Yes, sometimes we have the option to buy both looks and performance but as the SER demonstrates not always. I would rather drive.

I sold Nissans in the summer of 1993. Believe me, there was no shortage of buyers at sticker price. But the dealers in the D.C area were adding thousands of dollars above MSRP.

At that point buyers looked elsewhere.

StevenPensacola

6th February 2021, 17:55

Yes, but most American buyers are uninformed. I remember the original Sentra SER. A truly fantastic car, nothing even close at the price, failed in the US largely due to looks. Even one of the major automotive magazines warned buy it or it will go away. I don't care how it looked at 64 years old if I could have one new car of my choice in the driveway it would be a first gen SER. Yes, sometimes we have the option to buy both looks and performance but as the SER demonstrates not always. I would rather drive.

Back in the mid/late 90's, I was in the market for a small/fun car to drive to work. There was a used car dealer in town which specialized in interesting, used vehicles, and advertised they'd find the car you're looking for.

I went in there and asked them about locating an SE-R. The guy looked at me like I'd asked them to find a Chevette...He had no clue what the car was. I never got one.

HOKIES

6th February 2021, 22:02

Yes, it's a dinosaur. A dinosaur made in Japan on a Lexus assembly line with 100% Japanese parts. I love mine. If you look at the gear ratios they are basically identical to a Honda 6-speed but 6th is missing. But cruising over 80 mph is not the vehicle's strength. I like that the transmission never hunts for a gear and rarely needs to downshift. The vehicle weight and gas mileage are just a little worse than the latest/greatest unibody SUV's. The 4.0 pulls strongly from 1100 rpm to 6000, the hp and torque are respectable and it's in a mild state of tune. 2022 may be the last year you can get to a real deal dinosaur before it goes onto a new shared platform with the Tundra and likely moves production to the US.

Agreed...
I absolutely love both of my 4-runners.
My oldest blessing has laid claim to the 04
He is in from college this weekend
“Let”me drive it to pick up take out
I miss that rig

Johnny B Good

6th February 2021, 23:14

2025 Ridgeline revealed...Real men only need apply...:thumbs:

https://images.craigslist.org/00T0T_jWGXq2qnwIJz_0gw0co_1200x900.jpg

https://images.craigslist.org/00n0n_hW0bXrEVStHz_0gw0co_1200x900.jpg

https://images.craigslist.org/00U0U_4twc7wpp6xaz_0gw0co_1200x900.jpg

Towing capicity: UNLIMITED...:jump:

https://images.craigslist.org/00p0p_7Onpf9m05F1z_0gw0co_1200x900.jpg

Dry Martini

7th February 2021, 07:54

Yes, but most American buyers are uninformed. I remember the original Sentra SER. A truly fantastic car, nothing even close at the price, failed in the US largely due to looks. Even one of the major automotive magazines warned buy it or it will go away. I don't care how it looked at 64 years old if I could have one new car of my choice in the driveway it would be a first gen SER. Yes, sometimes we have the option to buy both looks and performance but as the SER demonstrates not always. I would rather drive.

So because Americans buy what they find aesthetically pleasing, they are uninformed? What a load of sh*te.

Besides being ugly, the Sentra SE R was front wheel drive, no thanks.

Red_5

7th February 2021, 11:07

So because Americans buy what they find aesthetically pleasing, they are uninformed? What a load of sh*te.

Besides being ugly, the Sentra SE R was front wheel drive, no thanks.

IIRC, Nissan had a magazine ad comparing the SE-R to the 510. Both were boxy but the one everyone loves was RWD.

I drove an SE-R back then and it was pretty fun. I had a CRX Si at the time. I was in college so there was no chance of me upgrading. I didn’t think that SE-R looked bad, it was just bland.

A couple of years later when I was in LA I got some free tickets to a Lakers game. They were supposed to be good tickets. My roommate drove in his mid-nineties SE-R. It was only a year or two old but it died on the way in front of Randy’s Donuts. Never made it to the game, or any Lakers game for that matter. It was Kobe’s rookie season.

sloopercat

7th February 2021, 11:19

So because Americans buy what they find aesthetically pleasing, they are uninformed? What a load of sh*te.

Besides being ugly, the Sentra SE R was front wheel drive, no thanks.

After spending a lot of time in Western Europe and comparing vehicle choices and the driving IQ to what I see here, it’s not a stretch to come to that conclusion. Other parts of the world make us seem like driving and vehicle choice geniuses.

Dry Martini

7th February 2021, 12:41

After spending a lot of time in Western Europe and comparing vehicle choices and the driving IQ to what I see here, it’s not a stretch to come to that conclusion. Other parts of the world make us seem like driving and vehicle choice geniuses.

He was not talking about driving, only about car choices Americans make, and especially at it applied to the Sentra.

People like what they like. That does not make them intelligent or stupid.

BetweenMiatas

7th February 2021, 12:48

People like what they like. That does not make them intelligent or stupid.

I agree.

Mazda23Miata

7th February 2021, 13:22

Dry Martini

7th February 2021, 13:25

I am a 64 year old retired professional mechanic. Started as a motorcycle snowmobile mechanic and then moved to auto and finally worked for many years as a utility company fleet mechanic. Now I understand that those following a forum such as tis tend to be more informed than most but I stand by the statement that American drivers are uninformed and I will add that they are also unskilled clueless drivers. This is not stupidity it is a lack of training, a lack of interest and a lack of personal pride in obtaining knowledge and driving skill. I once followed a deputy sheriff who made five consecutive turns without a signal the last from a totally illegal lane position. I know from talking to countless customers how little people know about even the basics.

What has all that got to do with what people like? [emoji57]

BetweenMiatas

7th February 2021, 13:28

What has all that got to do with what people like? [emoji57]

Perhaps it's this: If you don't make the effort to find out about the market offerings before going down to the Chevy dealer and buying the same kind of car your daddy always did, you'll never know if you liked that nifty Sentra SE-R or not.

BCKMRKR

7th February 2021, 13:35

Perhaps it's this: If you don't make the effort to find out about the market offerings before going down to the Chevy dealer and buying the same kind of car your daddy always did, you'll never know if you liked that nifty Sentra SE-R or not.

Like the "Real People, not Actors" Chevy ads (which makes the "Mahk" parodies even funnier)

Mazda23Miata

7th February 2021, 13:45

Dry Martini

7th February 2021, 13:48

Perhaps it's this: If you don't make the effort to find out about the market offerings before going down to the Chevy dealer and buying the same kind of car your daddy always did, you'll never know if you liked that nifty Sentra SE-R or not.

I get what you are saying, but in the case of the Sentra or any other car that the masses find unappealing, that extra knowledge will have little bearing. The car is simply bland (and FWD). So why settle for it, if one does not like the way it looks?

BTW, I like your signature line!

Mazda23Miata

7th February 2021, 13:56

jamesqf

7th February 2021, 14:00

The problem with the Aztek was not the marketing...

Then what was? I mean, the marketing people (and designers &c all the way up the corporate chain) presumably thought it would sell, otherwise they wouldn't have built it, would they?

What has all that got to do with what people like?

Becoming educated about something - anything, not just cars - is likely to affect one's preferences. E.g. if you're completely ignorant, you can look at some car and say "Oh, pretty! And high-status make! I want!!", whereas if you've bothered to educate yourself, you say "Yeah, pretty, but it tends to spend about a quarter of its life in the shop, and you basically have to disassemble it to change the oil, Maybe I'll pass..."

Dry Martini

7th February 2021, 14:15

Because in cases such as the Sentra there was no other car at the time that even came close performance wise for the money. So if one was looking for a low cost exceptional driving experience that was the only option. That was exactly the point the magazine was trying to make. They commented that they received a steady stream of letters from readers asking where can I buy a reasonably priced fun to drive car. The editor responded that we keep answering this question with the same car, the SER. So if looks are the priority, and everyone has the right to make that decision for themselves, then by all means buy what is appealing. My point though is that there are cases where the far superior performer is not pretty.

Then those companies failed to produce the complete package. There was no reason the Sentra had to be bland.

The MR2 was available when the SE-R rolled out.

Mazda23Miata

7th February 2021, 14:51

Dry Martini

7th February 2021, 15:28

Becoming educated about something - anything, not just cars - is likely to affect one's preferences. E.g. if you're completely ignorant, you can look at some car and say "Oh, pretty! And high-status make! I want!!", whereas if you've bothered to educate yourself, you say "Yeah, pretty, but it tends to spend about a quarter of its life in the shop, and you basically have to disassemble it to change the oil, Maybe I'll pass..."

Sure, but all that is no reason to buy an ugly car.

firstgenerationmiata

7th February 2021, 15:45

Then those companies failed to produce the complete package. There was no reason the Sentra had to be bland.

The MR2 was available when the SE-R rolled out.

And the MR2 was better looking..? :rofl:

Dry Martini

7th February 2021, 15:47

The MR2 was 2 seat and more money. The SER was a success for those who value the driving experience over appearance. To make it look nice would have added greatly to the cost. The fact that Nissan could take a Sentra and make it such a drivers car at so low a cost was amazing. There are other examples of this thru the years. The bottom line is that some people value performance over looks and as nice as it might be sometimes one can not have both. My newest car is nothing to look at but when the turbo spools up I don't much care what it looks like.

I have no problem with only two seats.

Are you telling me the driving experience is better in the Sentra than the MR2? :rolleyes: So you have to pay a little more. Life is too short to buy boring cars.

Dry Martini

7th February 2021, 15:48

And the MR2 was better looking..? :rofl:

Yes. Next question.

1995m

7th February 2021, 16:12

I know they made them - I have one* sitting in my driveway :-) But tell me this: if there's no market for small single-cab Toyota pickups, why do they command relatively high prices on the used market? And why are there forums devoted to them (and for years when they were just "Toyota pickups", not "Tacomas")? And lots of suppliers for parts & upgrades?

Of course part of the reason is that Toyota built them too well, so a lot are still on the road (or off-roading) after 30+ years.

*And long ago owned one of the first HiLuxes imported into the US, a '68 model IIRC.

I know you know what the Avalanche brought to the table. Just pointing it out for everyone else.

I know you know they made them. Just funnin’ ya.

Why doesn’t Mazda make small trucks anymore? Same argument.

In the case of Toyota they literally have the factories making them, they just don’t see the benefit of bringing them to the American market and diluting their successful product line in the US.

Remember the Mazda trucks that were about the cheapest new vehicle you could buy? I think it was a B2000?

Yes. I bought one in 1986. Needed cheap reliable transportation in college. $7,800. 5-spd, roll up windows, bench seat, rubber mats, no head rests, has A/C tho.

Why don't the Japanese make small trucks anymore? There was no meat in them. And they were taking up the quota. At the time Japanese cars were imported.

BetweenMiatas

7th February 2021, 16:23

I get what you are saying, but in the case of the Sentra or any other car that the masses find unappealing, that extra knowledge will have little bearing. The car is simply bland (and FWD). So why settle for it, if one does not like the way it looks?

Hmmm... I suppose, perhaps, that if the masses ALL knew about the Sentra, some would think, "Hey, that's a tidy little design!" instead of "Ewww, that's bland!" and might go test-drive, and even buy one.

BTW, I like your signature line!

Ah, thanks! I was thinking of changing it to "Vanity, vanity, all is vanity - King Solomon" in honor of Eunosfan's more succinctly stated "It's all Pish." signature line. :)

White3actual

7th February 2021, 16:24

Gumpus

7th February 2021, 16:55

Because in cases such as the Sentra there was no other car at the time that even came close performance wise for the money. So if one was looking for a low cost exceptional driving experience that was the only option. That was exactly the point the magazine was trying to make. They commented that they received a steady stream of letters from readers asking where can I buy a reasonably priced fun to drive car. The editor responded that we keep answering this question with the same car, the SER. So if looks are the priority, and everyone has the right to make that decision for themselves, then by all means buy what is appealing. My point though is that there are cases where the far superior performer is not pretty. I value the drive so I will settle for a vehicle that I do not find good looking.

I agree that the SE-R was exceptionally hot in it's day. It also had a limited slip diff which I think was unusual for the time. It's hard to calibrate one's expectations to the market from 30 years ago. This review from the time even complements it's looks.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=_IZ466Pgd-k

MX5Jeff

7th February 2021, 17:27

I am a 64 year old retired professional mechanic. Started as a motorcycle snowmobile mechanic and then moved to auto and finally worked for many years as a utility company fleet mechanic. Now I understand that those following a forum such as tis tend to be more informed than most but I stand by the statement that American drivers are uninformed and I will add that they are also unskilled clueless drivers. This is not stupidity it is a lack of training, a lack of interest and a lack of personal pride in obtaining knowledge and driving skill. I once followed a deputy sheriff who made five consecutive turns without a signal the last from a totally illegal lane position. I know from talking to countless customers how little people know about even the basics.

I agree 100%. I also agree that if knowledge in a field was valued, there would be an impetus to acquire it, and it would affect one’s decisions.

Americans on the whole are much more swayed by image than performance at least re’ vehicles. Surprising to think that we would spend 1/4 the cost of a decent house on something and pay so little attention to how it works and how reliable it is.

Europeans, using Germans as the prime example, are much more technically focused. I observed this re’ automobiles and housing construction when I lived there.

OTOH fashion sense, musical taste and cheap petrol—advantage USA.

Mariner90

7th February 2021, 17:52

I'm guessing it is your point #2. Because it is for me. Pickup trucks (and cars) should have a frame. Why? I dunno. I just think they do... for no particular reason I can think or speak of. I like El Caminos but not the early unibody Rancheros (the later full-frame ones are okay, tho.). I had/have no interest in the VW or Dodge (the FWD, K-car based ones) pickups or Subaru Baja. OTOH, I do like the first gen Subaru BRAT. Maybe those welded in jump seats made it okay?

But then again, it's most likely, your last point about not being butch enough. Everybody wants to project a macho self-image...

I wonder if the body on frame construction makes it more difficult to design in highly efficient crumple zones. I took a look at crash test results from the IIHS and the NHTSA and The Ridgeline seems to perform better than the more traditional pickup truck frame designs.

Dry Martini

7th February 2021, 18:01

I agree that the SE-R was exceptionally hot in it's day. It also had a limited slip diff which I think was unusual for the time.

The SE-R needed an LSD. I drove a Rentra while on a remote job install back in that time period. Even with standard power output, it had nasty torque steer.

It's hard to calibrate one's expectations to the market from 30 years ago.

I was around then. I did not like then, either.

Dry Martini

7th February 2021, 18:12

Hmmm... I suppose, perhaps, that if the masses ALL knew about the Sentra, some would think, "Hey, that's a tidy little design!" instead of "Ewww, that's bland!" and might go test-drive, and even buy one.

I think Gord said it best, “lipstick on a pig”. Long before someone got a chance to try an verbally dress it up, most people would think it bland upon seeing it.

It is like those people that try to tell me Billie Holiday could sing, when I cant stand the sound of her voice.

If I want to here a song she sang, I go look for a cover by Ella Fitzgerald or Sarah Vaughan.

Orangello

7th February 2021, 19:33

I’d rather have a loyal, smart, kind and ugly wife than an unfaithful, dumb, mean and beautiful one.

If those were the only two choices...

Don't you mean "If only those were the two choices"?

I am reminded of the main character's girlfriend later wife in those Xanth novels. She would go from HAWT and friendly but dumb to.........less-aesthetically-pleasing but Genius and bitchy over the course of a month due to "magic".

Plus 2

7th February 2021, 21:30

In 1993 I went to a Lotus event at the Grattan MI track. There was a guy with a Nissan SER outrunning most of the Lotus. I don’t think it was stock, he could drive, but still impressive.

Despite the peer pressure I will probably never buy a pick up. I do ride in one sometimes. My brother has an F150 the size of an aircraft carrier. It rides well, is roomy, comfortable, tows our 2200 lb boat/trailer rigs, and the fuel mileage on the highway is surprising. It’s not a bad choice.